Question for Russ Fairfield

Be patient ! -

Fred in NC

>I understand Russ is on the road, so his answer might take some time.

Re: Be patient ! -

Bill Neddow

>Russ never got my e-mail: I seem to have an old address. In any case the administrator bounced the e-mail back to me undelivered.

Re: Alcohol

Mark Mandell - Gone Round In Jersey

>Bill,

From my understanding, the key to the process is that alcohol and water are chemically "misable" such that the strong alcohol soak will draw the water out of the wood's cell structure. Mineral spirits is actually a light oil, will not mix with water, and will not work as a "dessicant" like the alcohol. Didn't see the post on WOW, but I believe it is in error from your paraphrase.

I'm under the impression that Canadians often get straight methanol (especially from industrial sources) rather than the ethanol we use in the States that has only about 5% methanol added to make it undrinkable and toxic. You should check the composition of the "methyl hydrate" to see if it may, in fact, be 90+% ethanol.

I think the issue of toxicity between the two formulations is the risk to YOU during the drying process from handling the liquid and breathing the evaporate. Straight Methanol is very toxic. Once the wood is dry, the alcohol is gone, so your end user will not be effected.

Mark Mandell

-2=mail

Re: Confused

Mark Mandell - Gone Round In Jersey

>Bill,

Wernt to the WOW site and pulled the thread. Didn't see anything about drying. Only thing I saw was Don posting about using MS (Stoddard's Solvent) as a cutting lubricant to prevent tearout on figured wood.

?????

M

I am not Russ but I know a little about alcohol.

Dave Smith, Longview, WA

>Hi Bill,

The alcohol drying method that I perfected over the last several of years was carried out using ethanol. Methanol is very toxic and I recommend against using it. You can find information in the articles section here on Wood Central.

For drying bowls mineral spirits do not mix with water therefor the drying effect of alcohol does not occur.

Feel free to contact me if you more information. What type of test were you going to do?

Dave Smith

Alcohol has taken over my life in Longview, WA

Re: Confused

Bill Neddow

>Mark, if you read through the whole series of messages, you will find (I think) than Don has shifted from WD40 to Claphams Sanding and Cutting lubricant for sanding and cutting. He is experimenting, successfully with using mineral spirits (Stoddart Solvent) for drying.

With all the different names in different countries for the same products, these things can be confusing, and potentially dangerous -- which is why I am asking questions first.

Re: I am not Russ but I know a little about alcoho

Bill Neddow

>Dave, thanks for responding. I have no intention of using methanol (methyl hydrate here in Canada) as I do not want to deal with such a toxic product -- toxic to me and maybe my customers. I was confused by the experimenting done by Don Thur as my experience is like yours -- mineral spirits and water do not mix. Guess I will be off to my industrial supplier to get some ethanol tomorrow. Here in Canada, they treat the ethanol with something to make it undrinkable and call it denatured spirits. Government has to collect its taxes through the Liquor Control Board!

Read That

Mark Mandell - Gone Round In Jersey

>Bill,

I did see the reference to soaking in mineral spirits, but I thought that referred to getting the "lubricant" to penetrate the wood before doing the final cut. Since regular MS [Stoddart with a "T" |;-}] is a petroleum distillate, I strongly suspect that Don's soak is not doing what he thinks it is.

In addition, since MS takes so much longer to evaporate than plain water, I don't see any benefit other than the original one of acting as a cut lubricant (which I plan to try).

Good idea to stay away from the Methanol.

Mark

Re: I am not Russ but I know a little about alcoho

Fred Le Bail

>I am trying not to get involved in this discussion but some times I just can't help myself.

I have no idea of what type of finishing you use on any of your woodworking projects, but I would suspect if you look under your bench you will find something more toxic than Mythol Hydrate.You can contact Richelieu Hardware Ltd. and they will Quote you a price of about $90.00 cnd for Shellac reducer which is 90% ethanol for 4 liters. Mythol hydrate is @$7.00 cdn here for 4 liters..

I have been using Dave's system for several months and the blanks are turning out as discribed and I assume any long term affects of MH will be masked by my use of Nitro-cellous Lacquer on my Flat projects(furniture making).

I think that the ill-effects of the MH will flash off, the same as the DNA that is available in the US.

My 2cnd cents worth.

Thanks Dave for the research!

Re: I am not Russ but I know a little about alcoho

Bill Howatt

>Bill,

Are you going to BSC on Cyrville Rd? I bought some denatured ethanol there for about $11 for 4L. It is called DAG 2 (Denatured Alchohol Grade 2). The denaturing agent is methanol (methyl hydrate and it is around 10% which is a lot better than 100%. They may have other stuff there with different denaturing alchohols added to the ethanol.

Bill

Re: I am not Russ but I know a little about alcoho

bill Crommett in seneca

>The treatment for methanol poisoning is ethanol. When some lowlife alcoholic gets poisoned by drinking canned heat poured through a loaf of bread "to purify it" the proper treatment is to keep him drunk with ethanol because the ethanol is metabolized by the liver in preference to the methanol which is excreeted unchanged. Don't try this at home !!!

Re: I am not Russ but I know a little about alcoho

ruth So. Cal

>Bill, you can get Ethanol (DNA)in Canada from the Home Depot in the paint section, or Home Hardware.....

Ruth

Re: I am not Russ but I know a little about alcoho

Bill Neddow

>Thanks, Ruth. It is good to have more than one source.

Re: I am not Russ but I know a little about alcoho

Bill Neddow

>Yes, Bill. I will be heading to BSC today. But I will be stopping at Home Depot on the way (see comment from Ruth, below)

Re: I am not Russ but I know a little about alcoho

John K Jordan

>>you can get Ethanol (DNA)in Canada from

>the Home Depot in the paint section

Might shop around. Here at least, Home Depot is an expensive place to buy denatured alcohol.

JKJ in East TN