Alcohol drying question

Re: Alcohol drying question

Jim King

>You may have the answer, everyone has tried everything to dry bowls. Can you Nuke em ?

Re: Alcohol drying question

Ken from SW WI

>The way I understand it, paper wrap IMPEDES the drying, but still allows it to happen.

Plastic will STOP the drying, and will likely induce mold or other undesirable effects.

It's worth doing a "scientific" experiment on, though. You could rough-turn a few small bowls from something like green willow or box elder, for example.

Re: Alcohol drying question

Jonathan Spool

>Hi Robert,

All I can say is try Daves methodology first, before over thinking it. I tried it on an end grain pine bowl, pith dead center. Soaked 24 hrs, dried two weeks wrapped as Dave describes.

Perfect results with nearly 0% distortion, and no checking. Far as I'm concerned I'm done experimenting until I encounter problems!

Have fun.

Jonathan

Re: Alcohol drying question

Chris K in MD

>Robert,

I just read the same article a few days ago and see that it was wirrten in early 2004. It is noted in the article that people like Bill Grumbine use the method, but then in his video he just seals the endgrain with anchorseal. I am not sure the duration of the production of that video but the question I am getting to is

How many people are using (or still using) and how is thier expericace with it. We need an update!

Chris

Re: Alcohol drying question

Roger Dunn

>I've turned 27 bowls of all sizes using Dave's process so far and don't have any rejects. For all the doubters, try it first, then if you have bad results, post them.

Roger Dunn

Re: Alcohol drying question

Barbara Gill, Remlik VA

>I think if you search you will find multiple postings from different turners who have been using the method since the information came out.

I have quite a few large bowls and two large vases drying right now after being soaked in denatured alcohol. I have not posted the results yet because the results are not all in.

E=mc2 eh

Dave Smith, Longview, WA

>Hi Robert,

It seems I have been outed. Telling people you work in the nuclear power industry is like saying

you are a lawyer. Senior reactor operator and a shift supervisor for a few years. Actually I don't work in the industry anymore since the local fission caldron was shutdown, and subsequently dismantled, in 1993. But I can still recite the three ways gamma rays

are slowed down. One of my favorite annual test questions was to draw the stress gradient across

the wall of a reactor vessel. I don't remember the thickness of an 1130 megawatt Westinghouse

Pressurized Reactor vessel but it is thicker that most bowl blanks that I turn. So understanding the

mechanisms that induce stress in a reactor vessel and whether the stress is a positive or a negative

in regard to the structural integrity of the vessel does have use in the real world. Who would have

thunk it?

As to your question of exterior wrapping. Without going through the convoluted thought process

of an irradiated brain, you want the outside to dry slower than the inside. Wrapping the vessel in a

plastic bag will accumulate moisture which has to migrate all the way through the wall to

disparate. Some people advocate using a plastic bag and turning the bag inside out everyday to

allow the moisture to be removed. That is OK for people who can remember what day it is or

never leave town. Besides, if moisture accumulates mold growth is going to occur. I wanted a

passive process that did not require operator action to prevent failure. Fail safe, where have I

heard that before?

Thanks a lot for bringing up memories. Now my brain is being flooded with useless information I

thought I had deleted years ago. Like 5B10 + a thermal neutron goes to 3Li7 + 2He4. Arrrrrg!

Each thermal fission of an U235 atom yields approximately 200 maga electron volts of energy.

About 75% of the heat generated is due to the fiction of the two fission product nuclei recoiling

away from each other. Hmmm. So nuclear power plants are just big friction generators.

Forty percent of all natural occurring potassium is radioactive. Why don't bananas have radiation

lables?

Dave Smith

Being bombarded by cosmic neutrons as I type in Longview, WA.

Re: Alcohol drying question

Robert Cox

>hmmm, I'd iimagine plant management might, just maybe, have a problem with that...

Re: E=mc2 eh

Robert Cox

>I'm just a poor old Civil puke doinig computer work and ISI.

I only had to know the 6 part formuila long enough to pass Basic Systems...

I take it you were a Trojanite?

A reasonable question.

Dave Smith, Longview, WA

>Hi Chris,

The article was not published until November 2004 several months after Bill made his excellent video. Besides, if I were Bill I would not want to include a new drying process in my video and have people distracted from the bowl turning instruction. When I ask Bill to test the process he was asked not to divulge information until I had published my finding.

I don't have a research budget nor do I have a staff of people to compile and disseminate information. I have been at the computer for over two hours this morning and most of the time I have been answering questions about the alcohol drying process. I have lost track of the number of people that have reported to me that they are regularly using the process with good results. I guess if the results were not good they would not be using it. I sincerely enjoy helping people and get tremendous satisfaction from doing it. I hope people continue to ask for my help with their alcohol drying problems. However, I don't have an independent souse of income to totally devote to championing the process. I also like to do a little turning from time to time.

There have been many people who have answered question on several forums which helps me tremendously. I try to monitor 5 forums and answer questions or correct statements about the process. Any of you readers who are using the alcohol drying process who find questions please refer them to the article on Wood Central. You can also refer them to my web site which has a link to the article on the home page. You can also peruse my wood for sale and help out that way too.

If I were smart I would find an avenue for financial support to fund research. That would involve being a salesman. Most people who know me can attest that if I were accused of being a salesman there would not be enough evidence to convict me. Besides woodturners the biggest beneficiarys of the alcohol drying process are the manufactures of ethanol. Perhaps I could do testimonial and say things like,"Ethanol make form Iowa corn dries wood faster, with more uniform results than any other alcohol on the market. Don't trust your turning treasures with a generic brand of alcohol. Insist on the best to increase your turning yield."

Dave Smith

This computer is driving me nuts, got to get into the shop in Longview, WA.

Re: Alcohol drying question

jared

>remove 1 for email

I was wondering what wall thickness you used on large size, over 12 inch, bowls. I have had a couple crack that were 15 inches in dia but I left the wall thickness about 1.2 inches. My idea is that I left tthe wall too thick. I think maybe I should turn the roughouts a little thinner since you do get less distortion, it seems. What was your experience? thanks jared

Re: Alcohol drying question

DWFII

>Why can't you just sela th eendgrain (or the whole bowl) just on the outside using anchorseal? Wouldn't that work? has any one tried it?

DW

In the High Desert of Central Oregon

Re: Alcohol drying question

Dick Hines

>I have been using Dave's alcohol drying method since he first posted it at Wood Central. I would not go back to the bag and wet chip method again. The turn around time on large bowls10"-15" is light years a head of anything I have ever tried.

I do 6 shows a year and alcohol method has heep me in bowls. No more having to wait months for them to dry. The success of cherry was enough to convence me.

Re: Alcohol drying question

Robert Cox

>Well, I went and bought my first alcohol tonight.

Re: A reasonable question.

Chris K. in MD

>Dave,

First thankyou for your efforts to help us all. I am sorry if you took my posting in the wrong way. I can understand how doing something like this can take over a huge amount of your time, it happended to me as well in a previos hobby. I am new here to the board and was looking for more of an update and other testimonials and updates from particiapants (like Bill) than a response directly from yourself. All your points are valid, I was a little thrown by two things;

1) I clicked on the link of another thread to find the article and there was no date directly on the article itself. (now I can see that the articles page has the date below the link)

2)Bill Grumbine used the alcohol soaking method in late 2003 to fill Christmas orders he received during a Thanksgiving artist show.

I had figured that using the method in 2003 would provide a good amount of time, however I can undertstand your point of conservatism, its prudent.

Again I am sorry if you took my inquiry the wrong way and like Robert, I will be buying some alchohol tomorrow to try it out. Thanks again

Regards,

Chris

No offense taken.

Dave Smith, Longview, WA

>Hi Chris,

Bill shot his video before I published the article so he couldn't have included the alcohol drying process even if he wanted to.

I have several emails attesting to the effectiveness of the process. I have it on my to do list to post some of the messages and pictures on my web site. Email me if you need more help.

Dave Smith

I have more wood than sense in Longview, WA.

Re: Alcohol drying question

TomW-SouthJersey

>Do some woods take to this better than others? I soaked a few pecan bowl blanks, waited 2 weeks to finish turning. There are no cracks but I did get some slight (1/8") warping at the tops. If I turn them upside down they rock a little.

I have some english walnut drying now and some black walnut ready to be rough turned and dried.

I didn't weigh them and don't have a scale to monitor the weight loss. Maybe they were not quite ready.

I See!!

Jorge Castaneda ~ Downeast Maine

>That is why you glow! :o)

Hmmm, only an 1/8" distortion.

Dave Smith, Longview, WA

>Hi Tom,

I know a few turners who think distortion that small is very good.

A couple things come to mind. Was the bowl acclimated to the environment where it was turned? Now that is an awkward statement. I dry bowls in my shop which is heated and dehumidified. If I store them in my garage I bring them into my shop several days before turning. This time of year the garage is on the humid side and pieces that have been stored in the garage will gain moisture. Remember that my definition of dry is equilibrium with the surroundings. Several turners have reported they move their roughed out pieces into their house a couple days before they final turn them. This may help with your problem.

Of course the piece may not have been completely dry. My data shows that most pieces will reach equilibrium in less than two weeks. I have been told that pecan is a difficult wood to turn because it moves so much. I have turned 4 pecan bowls and the 2 I have left are still recognizable as bowls. At a presentation I gave in Bremerton,WA I brashly said the pecan bowls were still round after turning them about six months ago. As I was turning one over to show how it would not rock on the table I thought to myself, "I should have checked the bowl before the presentation." Sometimes you just get lucky.

Both black walnut and English walnut dry quickly with less movement than most woods. I doubt you will have any problems with them.

Feel free to email or call if you need an other SWAG.

Dave Smith

Yes Dear, I'll be getting to work directly(more or less) in Longview, WA.

LOML says I am the light of her life. BWG

Dave Smith, Longview, WA

>

Re: A reasonable question.

Eric

>Dave:

Thanks for sharing your process with all of us. I have done 12 bowls with this method and only one cracked. It was white oak and I didn't take enough of the pith out of it. With my bowls, I rough turned them on Sunday afternoons and soaked them per your protocall. On Monday, I brought the bowls to work and weighed them before work every weekday for 2-3 weeks. I logged all of the data in Excel, yes I am an engineer. If my data would help you, please let me know and I will get you the data file.

You can bet your sweet bippy I would like the data

Dave Smith, Longview, WA

>

Re: Hmmm, only an 1/8" distortion.

TomW in South Jersey

>Dave

Thanks. I'll try bringing them in for a few days before I finish turning them. I bought another gallon of DNA tonight and a large container for soaking them to make sure I get full coverage.

After one week the english walnut hollow form is feeling significantly lighter to me. But I'll wait at least one more week to finish turning it.

My shop is my unheated garage that is only heated with a propane tank top heater while I'm working. The weather should be changing for the warmer any day now so I hope the problem disappears.

Thanks again,

Tom