Captive Hollowing System

Re: Captive Hollowing System *LINK*

Lyn J. Mangiameli

>You are thinking of the Turning Ways system which can be found on the web here: http://turningways.com/

There are lots of other alternatives which you can find discussed, as well as the Turningways, in part 4 of my survey of hollowing tools which you can obtain a pdf of at the link below.


http://www.fholder.com/Woodturning/lyn.html)

Re: Captive Hollowing System

Oscar

>Thanks Lyn, I appreciate it. Thanks, Oscar

Re: Captive Hollowing System

JamieDonaldson

>Oscar- investigate Don Derry's rig- it has the best bilateral laser adjustment I have seen, and the holder is polished brass to boot- very elegant. He demoed at OH Valley Guild last week, and I am about to order ANOTHER HOLLOWING TOOL as my wife said! Since I have already had tendonitis surgery I try to take care of the old joints!

Shoulder Problems....

Jennifer@Indy.USA

>Oscar,

I am also having shoulder problems....pain in both of them, but mostly the left and it all started when I started hollowing. I just bought the Don Pencil Scorpion and Stinger sets a year ago and only really started using them last Fall, and I'm telling you the pain is pretty bad sometimes....mainly when I get up in the morning. It's getting to the point where I'm going to seek some professional help. (for the pain, not the turning addiction :).....so.....I too have been poking around at the captured systems....it's a lot of $$ but I think if I want to continue the hollowing I might need to seriously consider it.

Jennifer

Re: Shoulder Problems....

Don Henthorn

>Jen, You may need to think about building Al Ceandall's rig. I love it.

Re: Shoulder Problems....

Jennifer@Indy.USA

>Yes, Don, I know.....I've been telling myself that since he had it at my house during one of the group get togethers....it is a neat set up!

Jen

Re: Shoulder Problems.... possibly major

JL

>First, a some personal thoughts - are you of a certain age? If you are near the big 50 or older, you may have problems.

Rotator cuff tendonitis and possible tears to the rotator cuff tendons. Get to a orthopedic surgeon ASAP. The way we hold gouges and other turning tools is not kind to that particular area (DAMHIKT). If you are fortunate enough to have minor injuries, they can be treated with physical therapy, ice packs and anti-inflammatory agents (ibuprofen, motrin and some presciption drugs). Major ones require surgery.

And I thought only pitchers got rotator cuff injuries. Not so.

Re: Shoulder Problems.... possibly major

Oscar

>That's exactly what I have, rotator cuff problems. Good news is that no damage has been done. I do alot of competitive shotgun shooting and I could barely lift the shotgun to my shoulder. I got some instant gratification and hopefully some relief this morning. I ordered the Kelton rig minus the laser. JL, you hit the age pretty darn close. Oscar

Re: Captive Hollowing System

William-Pa.

>I can definitely sympathize!

After 3 dislocations and now a screw basically holding my shoulder in, stress at the shoulder causes failure for me quickly. And I'm 35!

I too have the Don Pencil system, but after extended use, I'm ready for some ibuprofen and an ice pack.

Me thinks of looking into a hollowing system.

William

Re: Shoulder Problems....

Mark Kauder, Phenix City, AL

>Jen,

Look at the way you are hollowing. Are you having to hunch over or raise your shoulder up to use the tool? In general, if you do alot of hollowing, having the lathe up high will be more comfortable, but will make spindle work. I am 5'10" and have my spindle height at 48" - but I do almost only bowl and hollow bowls.

Even with a captured system, you might want the height higher.

Mark

Re: Shoulder Problems....

Don Henthorn

>I am 5' 7" and I just raised my Jet mini to 45 1/2" As for spindle turning one doesn't need to raise the rest as high to get the same tool approach one gets with the lathe much lower. It is not perfect the way I do it but it isn't that much of a problem.

Re: Some thoughts on Shoulder Problems....

Lyn J. Mangiameli

>I have arthritis and chronic tendonitis in my shoulders, as well as recurring tendonitis in my elbows. For over a decade I had restricted range of motion and moderate but fairly constant pain. In my case, I don't blame hollowing, but rather many years of abuse from rock and mountain climbing. These days, mine are more often aggravated from using a buffer at full arms length to wax a Suburban and training big dogs, than hollowing, even though I regularly use Scorpion/Stewart/Sorby armbraces when I hollow.

By all means have a professional evaluation if you think one might be called for, preferably from an orthopod who is versed in sports medicine. If you want to go whole hog, arguably the best sports knee and shoulder people in the world are at the Steadman/Hawkins Clinic in Vail Colorado.

That said, I've found that good hollowing technique, and a program of shoulder stretches and shoulder exercises have kept my shoulder situation quite tolerable. Indeed, my shoulders are much better at 54 than they were when I was 44, and that is after a lot of hollowing.

With respect to technique, both David Ellsworth and John Jordon have addressed this in their videos, David perhaps a bit more extensively than John as he has touched upon it in multiple videos. The big thing is to keep your elbows in close to your side. The tendency for many is to move their elbows out from the body like a spread chicken wing, particularly when they aren't changing their stance but are instead leaning their arm and torso over the bed (which is why swivel headstocks and short bed lathes, or the Ellsworth technique of stradling the lathe are so useful). When "chicken-winged" the elbow and shoulder are unsupported and unbraced, which greatly increases the loads on them. This is what leads to the fatigue and jarrings, along with too aggressive use of the tool tip. If you keep your elbows in close to your body, and control the depth your tip can penetrate (and some guarded cutters can come in handy here, or just don't extend the scraper tip out so much on those with adjustable heads) you can actually keep the forces quite reasonable and for most, not aggravate your shoulder joints.

As for stretching, some good information is available here:

http://www.nismat.org/ptcor/tennis_shoulder/index.html

and here:

http://www.nismat.org/ptcor/shoulder/index.html

I spend 10 minutes every single day stretching my shoulders and working on range of motion.

With regards to muscle strengthening, a good place to begin is with the information which is found here:

http://www.nismat.org/orthocor/programs/upperstr.html

and an excellent book is available here:

http://www.musclestuff.com/wogutowetr.html

(I bought the latter for my wife and both of us think it is outstanding). I weight train 3-4 days a week, usually including 1 to 1.5 hours of upper body weight work.

Weight training with good technique will increase your flexibility and strengthen the surround musculature so that your joints have greater protection. I personally credit weight training, done with good form, with greatly increasing the function in my shoulders, and almost eliminating some problems that had been with me for a couple of decades. These days my shoulders put up with me pushing weights that a lot of lifters half my age can't do (not that you should or would want to, but I mention it to illustrate that one can have damaged shoulders and still have much better than average functional usage of them with good attention to technique, stretching and training).

YMMV, but with attention to the above, I have no problems at all hollowing regularly (and yah, often fairly aggressively) with hand held tools, usually an armbrace.