A Little Different Alcohol Question

Re: A Little Different Alcohol Question

Ron in Drums PA

>I've tried 2" thick rounded cherry for pepper grinders. That seemed to work.

Re: A Little Different Alcohol Question

John F

>I got a 750lb green Myrtlewood burl from my neighbor a few weeks ago, its been slabed up and just waiting for a turn on the lathe.

I got an order for some salt and pepper shakers and am contemplating using the alcohol method to dry the blanks.

Did you drill out your blanks before soaking, did you wrap them at all?

thanks

John F

Re: A Little Different Alcohol Question

Mike Schwing from Md.

>My suspicion is that if you do not soak long enough to remove ALL of the water in your 3" thick rounds, you will be more likely to find cracking than if you simply anchorsealed them without soaking. The reason I believe this is that slow, controlled drying of wood from the outside in allows for moisture movement at a rate that will allow for movement without cracks forming. Speeding up that rate of moisture loss should increase the drying differential between inside and out to the point of introducing stresses otherwise not present. If you managed to remove all of the water then I think things would be different, but how are you going to know when that happens? If we replace only the outside water with alcohol, then it rapidly evaporates, and the interior is still very wet with water and the differential will cause problems. I believe this is where the failures with alcohol methods lie - not soaking long enough. Just my personal observation.

I think I'd drop those suckers in the alcohol for a month or so at a minimum to be sure. I'd then coat the ends with anchorseal, put the whole thing in a few paper bags and wait.

Any saw mills with a kiln nearby? I've found one around here perfectly willing to let me dry bowls in his - but its not worth the trouble since I decided I'm not in a hurry.

Re: A Little Different Alcohol Question

John K Jordan

>>I've tried 2" thick rounded cherry for pepper

>grinders. That seemed to work.

Are not pepper grinders bored hollow? These would not dry the same as a solid 3" cylinder.

I soaked some 3/4"-1" spalted oak burl squares in denatured alcohol for three days and let them air dry freely for over a week. Some warped badly. Last night I turned one small 3/4" square down to about 5/8" to look at the grain (which was beautiful!) By this morning, the little cylinder was badly bowed. Alcohol or not, I'm going to let the burl bits dry for at least six months before trying to use them.

I know an oak burl is not an indicator of what walnut will do, but I would still worry about drying such a large solid even if it is straight grain.

Can you possibly glue up some narrower dry stock to make the turning block? A laminated rolling pin can look great. If it has to be from her walnut, you still might slice, dry, then laminate.

JKJ in East TN

Re: A Little Different Alcohol Question

MikeinCapeMay

>Sometime back, as an experiment I soaked a bun foot that I turned from beech. It was approximately 5" X 4", soaked for 24 hours then placed on a rack. After 10 days it began cracking. It's in the smoker pile. Ovbiously thicker than your piece but the only solid hunk that I've tried.

Re: A Little Different Alcohol Question

Ron in Drums PA

>Your mileage may differ. All I can say is experiment.

I rounded 12 blanks in hopes that I can get 6 good ones. All where rough turned to 2" by 9"-10". I let them soak for 3 days (I got tied up and couldn't get back to them any quicker).

When I pulled them from the alcohol, I let them air out for about an hour, then wrapped them in newspaper with the end grain exposed. I used rubber bands to hold the newspaper on to the wood. Then I placed all of them into a grocery bag, closed up the bag and left them there for two-three weeks (again I got tied up and couldn't get back to them).

Not a single one cracked. The first two I screwed up (first time making pepper grinders). I finished 6 as gifts and still have 4 blanks left.

Re: A Little Different Alcohol Question

Ron in Drums PA

>Not knowing better, it may have been a good idea to bore them first. I'll try that next time.

Re: A Little Different Alcohol Question

Barbara Gill, Remlik VA

>I could laminate but she wants solid.

Re: A Little Different Alcohol Question

Barbara Gill, Remlik VA

>I run a sawmill and even have a bowl kiln which I don't bother using any more. Thick wood can be trick to dry in a kiln.

I sort of agree about the longer soaking time.

Re: A Little Different Alcohol Question

John Lucas

>Barbara

Are you going to turn them solid? If not you could drill a hole throught thecenter. This will let them dry a lot faster and if you use the alcohol soak it would reach more surface area. Then you could put handles on afterwords either glued or rotating.

Thanks for The Replies So Far

Barbara Gill, Remlik VA

>Normal air drying of 4x4 walnut is not a problem around here. I don't believe I have ever had one crack. In the case of these 3x3's the customer would like the rolling pins by Christmas but since thick wood takes longer than that to stabilize and air dry, Christmas is not possible under normal circumstances. I am going to experiment with soaking several rounded blanks for about 1 month in alcohol and then cover the end grain to slow down evaporation. I am also going to round up several and not soak and also cover end grain. It will be interesting to compare the difference.

Re: A Little Different Alcohol Question

Jonathan Spool

>Although I have had perfect results utilizing the alcohol drying process (even on end grain bowls that include the pith!), when I tried drying a lilac log that was 3.5" in diameter by 7" long, there were some checks extending 1.5" deep into the log from each end. The center section, amazingly enough, was check free then, and the spirit vessel turned from it remained check free.

I soaked for 24 hours and dried two weeks wrapped in paper. Perhaps had I soaked longer the results would have been different.

Jonathan

Re: A Little Different Alcohol Question

Barbara Gill, Remlik VA

>Yes, she wants them either without handles or with solid handles.

I will venture a SWAG.

Dave Smith, Longview, WA

>Hi Barbara,

I don't have any green black walnut at the moment so I can't test dry a piece for you. I did some experimenting with drying solid stock but not enough to identify a drying schedule. Since black walnut dries faster than most woods, I believe 3" turning square should only take a couple of weeks. Without going into the mechanism of water displacement by alcohol I would say soaking more than a couple days will not make a significant difference. If you want to increase the water displacement immerse the wood in fresh or dry alcohol in successive soakings.

Several thing can affect the successful drying of a blank. Growth rings and grain are probably the most significant. Larger trees will have smaller arcs in the growth rings which translates into less stress across the board. Think quarter sawn wood. Pieces with straight grain from end to end are less likely to bow or twist. The same thing holds true when drying turned bowls. A 10" bowl turned from a 12" diameter log will distort more than a 10" bowl turned from a blank cut from the outer edge of a 24" log. I make this statement from observation and not exhaustive testing and data collection.

An other way to relieve stress is to melt the lignum in the cells and allow it to cool with different stresses of a newly cut board or turned bowl as opposed to where the wood was in the tree living. Apparently that is the mechanism involved in boiling bowls and steam bending wood.

I will make a SWAG, as opposed to a lot of WAGs I have seen over the last couple months, on how to dry a turning square for making rolling pins. Cut blanks from straight grain wood with large arc growth rings. Make the squares 1/2" larger than than the final diameter of the rolling pin. Boil or steam the blanks for an hour or two then soak the blanks in alcohol for several days. Since you don't need the pins until Christmas soak the blanks for a week. Remove the blanks and place them in fresh alcohol for an other week. Remove the blanks, coat the ends with Anchoseal, and place on a rack so air can circulate around all sides. Standing the blanks on end works well for me. Boiling, one week soaking time, and a second alcohol bath are probably over kill but you don't need the pins for several months so what the heck.

I try to keep up with about 6 forums to answer questions that come up but I don't always catch everything. You may email or call me if you have specific questions

on the alcohol drying process. If I had a secretary and a staff I would collect and tabulate the information I have received from all turners who have used the alcohol drying protocol. I have garnered a grand total of $150 so far for all the work I have done on the process therefore I may be biased in promoting the protocol.

Dave Smith

Selling off turning stock to fund research in Longview, WA.

Re: I will venture a SWAG.

Barbara Gill, Remlik VA

>Thank you Dave. Right after Easter I will start the procedure.