finding your niche

There is nothing new under the sun.

Dave Smith

>Well maybe only occasionally does something come along that is truly different. The idea that each person needs a signature piece is, IMHO, esoteric. It is more important to a small group of people, professional �fill in the blank�, than it is to the general public. In my case I don�t have aspirations of becoming a �biggie� in any woodworking endeavor. In turning I make what I like. I appreciate the difficulty in making an unusual turning. But more often than not I find myself asking why rather than how it was made.

From my Navy days I remember the unwritten rule that a sailor listened to other sailor�s sea stories so they would listen to his.

Dave Smith

I don�t think I am as bad as I sound in Longview, WA.

Re: finding your niche

Ruth

>John, I know what you mean and how you feel. It sounds so easy; just do what you like to do and success with come (yeah, right!)

The best advice I've ever heard regarding finding your own niche or coming up with something different and original was, "Don't look at what others are doing, look at what they're NOT doing". Wish I could remember who said that but it was at the Instant Gallery.

I just wish I had more time to turn

John Crissman

>I woke up dreaming about a unique piece Sunday morning. I don't know how much time I have devoted to trying to figure out how to do it since then.

Yep, I am way hooked. I have not found my 'voice', but if I am waking up after dreaming about turning I have to think I am getting closer.

Its curious, that in my dreams I don't have to sharpen my tools...

Ron Layport

Dave Peebles Lyons, Ohio!

>Hello John,

First of all, let me say that I am really troubled by the fact that you have received your issue before I got mine.:)

Secondly, Ron is a close personal friend of mine. He is a wonderful turner, and one of the best "Thinking turners" that I have ever met.

By this I mean that he has the capacity to see where his turning was going, and managed to find his space to go in another direction.

I believe that anyone who looks at Ron's work will agree that it is very original. And there is something new to be done!!

We all strive to find our own niche in the woodturning world. But it is indeed tough to do something original. But I believe that Ron has done it. At least Del Mano Gallery thinks so, and so do I.

I have several unique things that have been working on the last few months. Will they ever be considered worthy by the Art buying market? Who knows, but I have felt the need lately to turn for myself and not worry about what everyone else thinks. Maybe I'll be famous when I'm gone.:) But I don't think so.

It is still not the destination... but the journey.. for me.

Best,

Dave

Re: finding your niche

Fog Tanner

>The realm of bowls and vases is too finite to expect that a shape has never been done before. If you turn a piece which is pleasing to your eye, look back at the ancient Egyptians, Greek, Romans, Chinese, and other civilzations and you will most likely find it in their pottery. The curves and lines that we find pleasing to the eye, are the same ones they found thousands of years earlier. We are only given the oppoutunity to express the same shapes in wood.

Should you want to truly find a place where no one has tread, and make the shapes that they didn't - remember they made them first to also find they weren't pleasing. Part of the joy is making something that you are pleased with and enjoyed making. It really doesn't matter what someone else thinks if you aren't happy. And, if it resembles what someone else has made, that just adds two more to the number that have copied the Egyptians, Greeks, Romans, etc..

As to someone laying claim to a form, the lines and curves that we use in making bowls are the same that the Egyptians and the rest used - the human body. The same lines that pleased their eyes are the same ones we watch going down the sidewalk or beach. Look at the next bowl you turn after having gone to the beach, you will find the same curves in wood that you found walking down the beach. It is best not to explain to your wife why you always get a smile when you look at a certain bowl - trust me. If you look at the ancient Greek's idea of beauty in their paintings, you will find the same lines in their pottery. Both were of a full figured human form. The ancient Egyptians, Romans and modern 'Mericans find other lines more pleasing, but they all still emulate the human form. And last I checked, no one on this planet can copyright the human posterior.

I think the real secret of finding your niche, is to find that passion for what you are making. The passion for the turning and the interaction you have when you achive that respect for the wood you are dealing with. It becomes more of a personal experience and each piece takes on its own unique character. The passion you put into your work and respect for the wood, will be reflected in what you make. And in that, it will truly be a unique piece with a life of its own and unlike any other. Given love and care it will far outlast its maker and someday, in another time, lead some other woodturner into discovering that "their" new shape had already been done before.

If you were there in '67, just put that feeling back into your wood and you'll be ok - if you weren't, you wouldn't understand.

Fog

Re: I just wish I had more time to turn

John Lucas

>John

That's better than being in sharpening hell where your tools will never get sharp. You've been sentenced to eternity at the grinding stone, And worse than that it's out of balance and wobbles.

Re: Ron Layport

John Lucas

>Dave

Getting back to what you enjoy is what I'm trying to do now. When I first got into turning I would make things just for fun whether Ihad the skills or not. It was the journey that was fun. Now that I have many of the skills I found myself trying to make things faster or even worse trying to make things specifically to sell. I made money but wasn't enjoying the trip. Now I'm trying to get back to the fun part and hopefully the personality I can put into a piece will take care of the "personal stye" part.

Re: finding your niche

Ron in Drums PA

>I don't know John....

I remember the pregnant goblets . . . I think you found your niche.

Re: finding your niche

John Lucas

>Ron

I like the pregnant goblet but I keep thinking about pieces like jacques Vessery or John Jordan do.

the have a huge number of variations of the same style. How many goblets could I make. I've drawn quite a few but I can see how I could run out of those pretty quickly.

I'm also looking at inside out turning in a more general way because I can do more with it and still stay within that recognizeable style. The pregnant goblet has an inside out turning in it so that sort of fits.

Re: finding your niche

Richard Allen

>If you really focus on pregnant goblets I am sure you would find never ending variation on that theme. The more you do the more a small difference will represent a variation.

The goblet inside can be paternal twins or identical twins or triplets or a sing male or a single female or an albino. The bulge of the mother can be higher, lower, front, back. Breasts can be added to the mother, as can a rear. The goblet top can be shaped in many different ways to reflect differnt moods and outlooks and the base can be shaped many different ways.

You can make a series which represent grandmothers and grandfathers from both sides as well as the mother and father and even siblings.

These are all just off the top of my head. I am sure if you pursued the notion of goblets as people that ther become many many many opportunities.

I am not sure you want to pursue this sort of a niche. But don't ever think that you will run out of design opportunities for such a class of objects.

I think that is where a niche occurs. It isn't with the first or second item. Its with the 10th, 50th, 1000th item that they make on a theme.

Good Luck

Richard

Re: finding your niche

Ron in Drums PA

>If I remember correctly, one of your variations was the "TIn Man" .

Maybe you can try the "Goblet-ator"

Re: I just wish I had more time to turn

John Crissman

>I would image that in sharpening hell not only would the grinder wobble, but the fix would be an even more expensive set of balancers! :)

That is right where I am (trying to escape)

John Trant (aka Boxes-n-Bowls)

>Hi John,

I know what you mean. I took that same trip and am at the same crossroad. I found that I was so busy turning simple bowls and vases (items that would sell readily) that I didn't have time to expand my level of skill. The demand for inventory was so great that I simply could not afford to "waste" a week or two exploring a new creation just to have it fail physically or artisticly.

I have decided to stop doing shows for a year after I fullfil my October committments. This will give me the opportunity to explore some of the projects that I yearn to do. Fortunately, I am pretty good about sketching my new ideas in a book or on a set of cards so that they will not be lost. Of course, there is no guarantee that after this year of exploration that I will have identify "my own voice".

Personally, I think establishing a signature style is great for national/international name recognition but it could become a horrible yoke if you let it stiffle your future creative explorations. In fact, I believe a signature style is often annointed by the public opposed to selected by the artist. My guess is that an artist will explores a number of different avenues as he develops but the one (latest?) style that is popular becomes associated with the artist.

But what do I know!?! Just my $0.02

John

Re: finding your niche

Russ

>Our "niche" depends on whether our goal is profit, recognition, or personal pleasure and satisfaction.

If we want to sell our work or our talent, we will follow the money, making whatever people are buying in our chosen venue. If we want to do something different, we will have to chose a different venue.

If we are doing it for the recognition, we will follow the direction that brings the most compliments from whomever we are trying to please.

If we are doing it for our personal pleasure and satisfaction, we will make whatever we want.

Sometimes we are fortunate enough that we can put all three of them together.

Is it the end product or process???

KurtK in Indy

>I have been lately doing some interesting things with burls. I am more and more inclined, however, to get inspiration from existing forms and seeing how to improve them through the use of species and finish techniques. I am finding that dyeing and staining and experimenting with the finish on dramatic grained woods really makes a run'o'the mill profile stand out.

I dunno...still working through the process...but it is exciting...almost like a mad scientist.... mixing new potions...

Oops...I better quite smelling the solvents.

Kurt

Re: finding your niche(long)

Bob Hackett

>One of the great joys of being involved in a club is to watch someone in it make it to the top.I`ve had the good fortune to be able to see that happen for 3 of our members.I hope to see it happen for many more.

David Lancaster started the Maine chapter of the AAW and if you`ve ever seen him demo I think you`ll agree he`s one of the most technicly proficient turners in the world today.He should be,production turning is how he makes his living.David has concentrated on quick approaches to get the job done and backed it up with countless hours of research and experimentation.Richard Raffan is the only name that comes to mind that is in David`s league IMO.

On the other end of the spectrum is Jacques Vesery.I`ve known Jacques since he was making and selling sushi boards and turning chopsticks to go with them.He also researches everything he does just about to death,always looking for a better way(not necessarily faster,just better).His work developing segmented cutting and layup is something most folks are not aware of.

Jacques`s passion for his craft and his work seem to have no bounds.It`s that passion which brought both him and his work to where it is today.His original feathered pieces came about in an attempt to express his love of nature and to help give movement to his pieces.The feathers on the early pieces were much longer and spiraled around the forms.We all knew immediately that he had nailed it but he wasn`t satisfied.He researched and experimented with layered color till the pieces stopped saying "feathers" and started saying "flight".Look closely at a crow`s feathers and you`ll see that they have an iridescent quality that looks like a oil on water.Jacques wasn`t happy till he found a way to make that happen.To hold one of his signature pieces is to hold a bird that`s been transformed into a vessel.That passion brought him there,and continues to drive him to push his work further and further.His latest work is more sculpture than woodturning and is more about ideas than it is about wood.

The last of the three is Steve Gleasner.Steve has more in common with Jacques than with David.

He saw what Rude Osolnik had done with plywood turnings and thought he could expand on it.He took his experience with spray equipment and dyes and began playing with dyeing the pieces he had glued up in a diagonal layup.He was discouraged at the tearout and researched till he found that a hook tool was needed to cleanly cut the ply.He debuted the pieces at the AAW symposium instant gallery.Jacques just happened to be demoing there at the time and when the pieces caught the eye of Delmano gallery(who was handling Jacques work at the time)they asked Jacques if he knew this guy from Maine.

Jacques knew that Steve considered these pieces to be far more work than they were worth at the time and slipped off to tell Steve that he hoped he was ready to perfect his technique because they were about to become his "signature piece".Steve did in fact perfect his technique and now demonstrates it worldwide.

The common thread thru all three stories is the passion for the work and the willingness to spend hundreds of hours researching and experimenting till you perfect something.The magic formula is equal parts motivation and hard work mixed with alittle vision and talent.

It`s especially nice to see someone like Jacques rise to the top because he is just an incredibly nice person and he goes out of his way to share his success with those around him.He can always be counted on to make time to help a friend with a problem,turning related or not.He has a way of bringing the best out in people and making them think they did it on thier own.Those of us who know him and watch him interact with others know it`s him that brings it out.

Finding your niche wasn`t all that hard for the three people I`ve talked about.They just sort of fell into it by doing what they loved.It`s an inspiration to the rest of us that they can prosper doing it.

Mainely,Bob

Re: That is right where I am (trying to escape)

John Lucas

>John

Good .02 worth. I talked to a friend who is in a big gallery and he had to go to a different gallery when he changed his style. I don't want to get caught in that trap but then again the first gallery has and still is selling alot of his work.

Re: finding your niche(long)

John Lucas

>Bob

I had a long talk with Steve at the Rhode Island symposium and he helped get me back on the right track. We were both making a wide variety of things. He said someone told him to find one thing he liked and do it well. He did, and it shows.

Like the old saying goes...

Bob Hackett

>If you try to do everything,you will end up doing nothing really well.

Unless you`re Nick Cook or Dick Sing or Richard Raffan or David Lancaster or Bob Rosand or Palmer Sharpless or Rude Osolnik or Bill Grumbine or...

Maybe your niche is to be a master turner and teacher John,seems to me you`re headed down that road already.There`s alot to be said for leaving that kind of mark too.

Mainely,Bob

Re: Like the old saying goes...

John Lucas

>Bob

I'd like to leave my mark on the world but that's not my goal. My son starts college in 3 years and I need a serious second income. A second job is out of the question because of the hours I work on my first job. Woodturning I can do at 5 in the morning or 11 at night. Rude Osolnik put his kids through school doing this. I'm no Rude Osolnik but I hope to get my turning to the point I can make a good second income.

Craft shows are not a good choice for me because I may have to cancel at the last minute if my first job demands it. Galleries seem to be the way to go and it seems to me you need a recognizeable style and name. So naturally I'm seeking a solution to this or perhaps a better way to make a second income. I tried being a gigelo but surpisingly the demand for my services was a little low.

Want to make money at woodturning?? *LINK*

Russ

>John,

Quality sells, regardless of whose name is on the bottom. What you will not be getting is the added value for the "signature" that is on the bottom of it. That be as much as $750 or more, depending on the "name".

There is money to be made in woodturning, but there are some other things that can be more profitable than selling art works through galleries.

The "real money" in turning wood is in spindle turning, and the better and faster you become, the greater the income. It will take some marketing effort to get started, but there is a definite need, and very few woodturners who are willing to, or want to turn spindles.

Oter than spindles, there is more money to be made in Salad Bowls than any other thing we can make. Regardless of what all of the other woodturners tell us, the simple bowl form in an unusual, ellegant, or highly figured wood, is still the most popular piece of turned wood for those who have the money to spend. A salad bowl will sell faster and at a higher price than anything else we could make in the same amount of time. Read my thoughts on turning and selling salad bowls at the link below.


The Salad Bowl

Re: Want to make money at woodturning??

John Lucas

>Thanks Russ

I'm a good spindle turner and have thought about this because there is a need in our town. I'm going to research it some more.

Re: Want to make money at woodturning??

Bob Hackett

>Good point Russ.When I sold my work thru Thomas Moser I sold alot of simple salad bowls in figured wood.The art pieces were being sold at a couple per month.My simple bowls and platters sold at 10 times that.I kept prices reasonable ($150-350)and the manager kept calling every month for more,she`d hand me the check when I dropped them off.It was a good second income for me.

The trick seems to be to get into a gallery that will talk about you and your work.Not a sales pitch,just giving customers info about the piece and the man behind it.

When others are complaining about flat sales up here our gallery seems to be doing fine,especially in regards to turned pieces.It definately helps to have other craftsmen who know you personally telling folks about your work,as opposed to dealing with sales staff.

Mainely,Bob

Re: Want to make money at woodturning??

Edward T.

>In his seminars, woodturner, Frank Sudol, always emphasized developing your oun style. His catch phrase was; "there are a million good ideas out there, you just have to reach up, grab one and make it your own". Uhhuh! So how do you know when you have a great original idea? Maybe it is intuative - you just know. Later Frank reported that having one's work on the cover of an international woodturning magazine like ummm.. Woodurning helped a whole lot. Gallery people who would previously not give you the time of day would now call and beg for some art work to sell.

So' I guess it would be a good idea to make friends with magazine editors or start your own magazine, neither of which is an easy prospect. And you still have to have something original to say in your work.