Sharpening system recommendation

Re: Sharpening recommendation (very long) *LINK*

Lyn J. Mangiameli

>Oh gee, wars are fought over this stuff, about on the same scale as religious wars because reason in each case is often about equal.

First I will immodestly suggest reading my article on basic fundamentals of sharpenig turning tools (see link below). If you should accept what I say there, then it will give you a guide to evaluating any sharpening set up.

Second, and I'm may seem self serveing here too, but give more weight to advice received from folks who have actually tried out and ideally use more than one system. It is too easy to become partisan in defense of the only choice one has made, rather than actually having experience with alternatives and then selecting which suited one's needs best.

Third, there is no single system that is ideal for all sharpening tasks (though the Tormek probably comes closer than the others). Thus you will have to weigh your needs against the space and monetary requirments of having the optimal system for each need.

Those things said, here's what my sense of things are, coming form the perspective of being both a serious hand tool user and an active woodturner.

For flat blades, there are two systems that I have found more effective than others: The Lee Valley Mark II Power Shapening System (QPSS for short) and a hand system using primarily Shapton brand waterstones. I have both the originall Lee Valley Power Sharpening System (NUSS) and the new version. The new version, though almost half the price, is much the superior. It is quieter (the Q) and more powerful (the P) than the NUSS. It also takes up less space and has smoother operation. This unit is a delight to have for flat blades up to 2-3/8 inches, but really requires at least two additional platters with finer grits than come stock with the machine. It is fast, efficient, can give a very refined edge, and has excellent repeatability of geometry. I've sharpened and maintained literally hundreds of plane blades on the pair of these systems and can't recommend the QPSS highly enough. The only place it falls down is in flattening backs, which I and others have discussed previously. If you do a search on my name and QPSS or Lee Valley Sharpening System on the WC hand tool pages, you will find a lot of advice and other comments on using it. The only place it falls down is in flattening backs, which I and others have discussed previously.

The other alternative for flat blades is a waterstone system using efficient, relatively long wearing Shapton stones and their accessory lapping plate. This is not a cheap system, but is better for lapping backs and does a fine job for bevels when used with a honing guide. There will be an outstanding honing guide come fall, so I wouldn't over invest in one before then. My current favorite, though, it the FastTrack one that has excellent stability (particularly if you purchase a second roller), is very positive in maintaining blade position, and will work with the Tormek as well as waterstones as well as their own grinder jig.

An alternative to the waterstone set up is using diamond slurries on a cast iron lapping plate (one for each grit). This system can get expensive because of the cast iron plate, but is even faster than the waterstones and doesn't need flattening. A good source for the cast iron plates can be difficult to find.

Any of these systems are light years ahead of Scary Sharp using abrasive papers on a flat surface. They are faster, and avoid the effect all to common with scary sharp of the paper differentially eroding the leading edge of the flat blade. They also tend to have much longer life and are more easily maintained as flat than the fixed diamond "stones."

The Tormek does a tolerable job with flat blades, particuarly if you use the Fast Track honing guide instead of the Tormek version. It's greatest draw back for flat blades is that it will not refine the edge sufficiently for fine hand tool usage, thus you usually need a couple of waterstones to take the edge to final preperation. The Tormek has the advantage of having multiple jigging systems, nearly all of which work quite effectively, so there is virtually nothing you can sharpen im a controlled way with the Tormek (yes, I even have used the axe jig, and it works great).

Neither waterstones or the QPSS are worth much when it comes to maintianing turning tools with the frequent sharpeing often involved, and the compex geometries often required. I personally vastly prefer the Tormek for sharpening turning tools, in particular swept back gouge grinds, over all other systems. Yes it is slow to establish the original geometry, but one usually does that only once. For maintainence of an existing grind, the Tormek is quick, highly accurate with respect to repeated geometry, leaves a very sharp edge and results in dramatically longer tool life. If Tormek were to go out of business tomorrow, I'd have to find a way to have a similar system manufactured. Lots of people (many who have never used one or are jealous of what they cost-but also those who prefer free hand sharpening, which is better controlled on a high speed grinder) deride the Tormek as either unnecessary or too slow, but I would counter than there are a lot of experience turners, including high speed production turners, who swear by their Tormek. Simply put, I can't recomment the Tormek highly enough for maintainance of turning tools.

Where the Tormek falls down is in the area of rapid removal of large amounts of steel, such as when establishing the original geometery on a new gouge, or changing form one geometry to another. Here a dry grinder is much faster.

There are two dry grinder set ups that I have used and recommend (and will soon be doing a full review on). One set up uses an inexpensive Delta 6 inch grinder with white wheels and the Woodcut TruGrind jig. This set up is very compact, fairly inexpensive, and highly suited for accomplishing the full range of grinds used for scrapers, skews, bowl and spindle gouges, and (with a couple of inexpensive accessories) both small hollowing bits and scraper blades. It doesn't come with a flat tool rest (indeed none is available, though you may be able to retain at least one that come with your grinder), but otherwise it is exceptionally versatile and makes for an uncommonly compact package that is inexpensive (and makes for a good counterpart to a Tormek). Of course you can use the TruGrind with larger grinders too, and it will work just as well, though the package will be somewhat larger and more expensive.

Another approach to the dry grinder that I use is a large heavy (90 pound) Delta 8 inch grinder (or any other 8 inch of your choosing- I used to use an 8 inch Baldor), matched to the Kelton Sharpening System. If space is not an issue, or when working very large tools (the TruGrind is just a little awkward when sharpening very large tools such as a one inch Glaser Spindle Gouge or 3/4 inch Glaser Bowl gouge) the Kelton Sharpening System is exceptionally versatile and much easier to set up than the others, as the Kelton has built in heigh adjustment that neither the Wolverine nor the TruGrind offer. The Kelton, becasue of its height adjustment and long arms, can handle not only its own bowl gouge jig, but will allow the use of the Woodcut Trugrind jig, the Ellsworth jig, and I have even make up an adapter that will allow me to mount the Tormek Univeral support bar and all the Tormek jigs. In this case, when esablishing a new geometry, I can mount a gouge in a Tormek Univeral Gouge jig, coarsely remove the bulk of the steel on the high speed dry grinder, and then switch the jig over to the Tormek for final geometry and edge refinement. The Kelton system comes with a flat tool rest table (that the TruGrind doesn't) and its long arms make sharpening even the longest skew and roughing gouges a simple task. The downside is that those long arms require a lot of space in front of and behind the grinder (though no worse than the Wolverine). In my opinion the Kelton is a major advancement over the Wolverine (which it strongly resembles) because of its integral height adjustments and arm socket that allows for easy interchangeability of not only its own jigs, but the jigs of other manufacturers. IMO, it is inferior to the Wolverine only in the area of arm clamping, were the Wolverine results in less marring of the arms. Frankly I expect to see the Kelton system further evolve to include even more jigging capabilites and capacity to accept the jigs from other systems.

As for wheels, for a less expensive system, I'd suggest a pair of white wheel, one of 60 and one of 100 grit.

For a cost no object system, I'd suggest the new Norton SG (seeded gell) ceramic wheels with a 46 grit for blasting away metal for inital establishment of geometry on big tools, and an 80 grit wheel for refining that edge (which I still feel will usually require honing with a diamond stone or on a Tormek afterwards).

Though I much prefer a Lee Valley QPSS for flat blades and a Tormek for turning tools (and the rare power planer blade or kitchen knife). If you do go the dry grinder route, I think either the Woodcut TruGrind or Kelton Sharpening System will work great, and for defining and repeating the geometry.

There's much more to be said, and I'll be happy to follow up with any of this in emails (and you can find more in the archives), but that's a not very quick overview from someone whose tried (and pretty much owns) nearly every system and has had the need (for my hand plane studies and woodturning reviews) to sharpen a lot more and different edges than the average person.


http://www.fholder.com/Woodturning/lyn.html

Re: Sharpening system recommendation

MikeinCapeMay

>I use the Tormek, it's expensive but for someone that can't seem to sharpen on any other "grinder" (me), it's great. I have the jigs and sharpen all of my edge tools with it.

For heavy removal of stock, such as changing the shape of a gouge, I start with a standard slow speed grinder, I have the cheaper version of the Baldor sold by Woodcraft, $80 as I recall, then move to the Tormek.

Keep in mind though with the Tormek, you absolutely need the jigs and they are expensive as well. Initially I purchased the Turners package and added on from there.

So, expensive but nearly fool proof, which is what I needed. It's a pleasure to turn to the Tormek as often as needed and within seconds bring the edge back to where it belongs. As a turner you can appreciate that. For me it was a well spent investment that's used daily.

Lyn-Question

MikeinCapeMay

>Lyn,

Great post! Who manufactures the Fast Track honing guide and where is it sold?

Thanks,

Mike

I second what Lynn said,sorta

TDaniel

>i , for the most part, second what Lynnn has said. I use a Tormek, an 8" Delta 1800 rpm grinder with 60 and 80 grit blue stones and a Wolverine, and another grinder with grey wheels just for roughing in a new tool; it all comes down to how often you need to sharpen. My Tormek is only used to maintain gouges because everytime you want to do a flat tool you must first dress the wheel because the gouges dish the stone out in the middle. The only poor part about a Tormek (other than the outrageous price of their replacement stone)is the dressing tool. Dressing a stone that has been used a while on gouges takes a LONG time. Some of the good things about it are its compactness, its portability, and the available jigs that let you sharpen about anything. I would only recommend a Tormek as a second grinder, however. The primary grinder should be an 8" low rpm with good wheels and a higher quality set of the "washers" that hold the wheels than the ones that come on most grinders. Lynn, do you know where to obtain these "washers"?

The "washers" that come on the Delta are good and I think the same would apply to Baldor but the others I have seen are pressed steel and are worthless because they do not hold the wheel 90 degrees to the shaft. Unless you want to do a lot of "fiddling" spend a few more bucks and get a Delta or Baldor. Whatever station you choose, the jigs do not guarantee you a perfect grind; only a consistant nose angle and side angle; your eye is still important in getting a good shape on the tool end.

TD

Re: Sharpening system recommendation

Mike Swain

>Hi Todd,

Just about the same as Lyn and Terry, an 8" slow speed grinder for the rough work and a Tormek wet system for the final sharpening.

At the moment the blue stones don't seem to available here in the UK in the 8" size so I use pink wheels from Peter Child in 60 and 100 grits.

As for the jigs I have many different kinds on test, Tormeks own in conjunction with the wet system and my main preferences for dry grinding are the TruGrind and the Wolverine, both for their ease of use.

With regard to better quality washers for the wheels on dry grinders, Oneway, as part of their sharpening system do a balancing kit in different sizes. This includes two sets of screw together washers, a wheel balancing device and various nuts and bolts. The washers go onto the wheels and then the nuts and bolts are adjusted to balance the wheel.

My slow speed grinder is only a cheap model, adding the pink wheels made a big improvement but the biggest gain of all was with the balancing kit. The grinder now has little or no vibration and the wheels run very true.

Hope this helps.

Regards....Mike

Re: Sharpening system recommendation

John Lucas

>I'm on the budget end of the scale and could never afford the Tormek. I've found that If I keep the tool cool I can sharpen anything on my woodcraft 8" grinder with 80 and 100 grit wheels.

I have the Wolverine system for sharpening most of my lathe tools. I've built other attachments to aid sharpening other things.

For plane irons and chisels I start out on the grinder and then go to the "scary sharp" sandpaper on glass sharpening system.

I do have 3 other really cheap and old grinders that have rough out wheels for grinding lawnmower blades and such and a cheap grinder with paper wheels for sharpening knives.

Question from a Non-Turner

Don Thompson, Cutler Ridge, South of Miami FL

>As you know, Lyn, I am lathe-less at this time. I have a Tormek, and discovered, as did you, that it does not produce a highly refined edge on my woodworking chisels and plane blades. Used by itself, one ends up with polished coarse edges.

Why does this problem not apply to turning tools?

Re: Sharpening recommendation (very long)

Arch

>This is not a war with Lyn. I'd lose it anyway and he is likely smiling as he expects my kneekick response. His reviews are consistantl thoughtful, thorough and well written from actual experience. I just hope my remarks aren't those of a reactionary old coot desperately holding on to outmoded methods as he trys to bolster a sagging ego.

Sharpening devices and aids are clearly very useful. Much better turners than I use them, but free-hand sharpening remains a useful, almost necessary, adjunct. The litany about the difficulty of learning to free-hand is like the idea that a person who otherwise can turn wood nicely can't learn to skew. What one fool can do another can.

This is a thread about sharpening devices and if you will consider your body parts as such, I'm not too far OT. However, ths isn't a thread about the virtures of various ways to shape and sharpen turning tools. As with ways to dry wood, multiple methods for sharpening steel probably mean that there isn't any one best way, so,for now,that can of worms remains unopened. Certainly, there is an important place for sharpening/grinding aids, same as for any other aids to good turning that help more than they hinder. Woodturning shouldn't be a masochistic craft, besides most of us need all the help we can muster. So here's my unasked for advice that Lyn awaited with grin & groan.

First, to labor the obvious: no matter how skilled you are and how fine the equipment you own you can't turn wood successfully without sharp tools.

Furthermore, buy all the gouges you need and buy any sharpening device and aid you choose, but learn to skew and to sharpen free-hand. They are part of the craft and will serve you well. We count applying a tool to a spinning wood blank fun, so why not enjoy and not fear doing the same to a spinning grinding wheel.

There, I've said it again! Arch

Arch

Re: Sharpening system recommendation

Mark Mandell - Gone Round In Jersey

>I use a 6" General 1800 rpm for turning tools with an 80 grit whit wheel and a 120 grit green wheel. Flat beveled carved chisels are done a Delta-type horizontal wet grinder running an "india" stone at 220 grit, then hand finished on a 10x3 hard arkansas white stone.

Heavy shaping is done on a twin-wheel 18"x3" (one wet, one dry) monster that I inherited from a friend's father. Thing runs on a 1/2hp motor that winds to one of three speeds. Have no idea what the grits are, although the wet wheel (used at the slow speed) seems pretty fine.

Mark

-2=mail

Re: dealing a bit with the "sorta"

Lyn J. Mangiameli

>Some great observations. You're so very right to comment about the dishing on the Tormek wheel, and it not being a problem for the gouges but is when one is switching to a flat blade or a skew. I don't have the problem with dressing the wheel though. Indeed, the stock grader is unacceptably inefficient for this, and is really best thought of as a grit grader, but I've found that two other devices work much better. A cheap "green" silicon carbide stick for dressing dry grinder wheels is more agressive and will flatten the stone more quickly, but the real wonder is one of those 1 inch or more wide flat faced diamond dressing tools that Packard and CS and Woodcraft sell, (mine is the cheapest model and is about 36 grit, BTW) and it not only flattens the face of the wheel very quickly, but roughens up the surface as well so it is a bit more agressive for minor geometry changes. The extra aggressiveness doesn't last long, but that is usually good. If one doesn't want that added coarseness, one can always follow the diamond dresser with the stone grader. I now only use the Tormek diamond dressing jig about every six months just to insure roundness.

The big 8 inch Delta has really been a pleasant surprise. I know that some early adopters had some troubles, but mine has been well made and worked flawlessly. That 90 pound weight really smooths things out. And yes, it has amazingly good washers, so good that I am somwhat reluctant to replace them to use one of the Oneway balancers.

I haven't gone in search of better washers (though I probably should for my cheap 6 inch grinder). I imagine what some could just order up the Delta washers as replacement parts. What the Delta washers remind me of are the aftermarket stabilizers sold for tablesaws. Those are almost all 5/8 inch bore and are thick and well machined. I wonder if one could find one just the right thickness in one of those. (I actually have some I haven't used that I when I get a chance I will measure). I also wonder if Oneway might be a source. Another reason I don't use the Oneway balancer on my Delta wheels is that it doesn't come with spacer washers that will properly position the wheel. I suspect that Oneway offers washers that will allow their balancer to be properly positioned along the shaft.

Re: More on the Fasttrack Honing Guide *LINK*

Lyn J. Mangiameli

>You can get it direct from the FastTrack folks (used to be Mark Duginske of bandsaw fame, but he recently sold to the Kreg people if I understand correctly).

They used to be shown in the Garret Wade catalog, but I don't know if they still are.

For addition to the Tormek, all you need is the basic tool holder/honing guide. What I really like about his is that it has a wide registration surface against the Universal support bar, offers the ability to single point clamp plane blades throught their center slot (that avoids having to tweek the two side screws like on the Tormek and Veritas carraiges), comes with excellent side restraints the absolutely prevent narrow blades from shifting, and also has full skew setting abilities.

For stone use, it has all the advantages I mention with the Tormek, and also has the best stability of any jig out there when you add a second roller set to the bottom. One roller is as wide as any you will find on any other jig, but two allow you to tailor the width even wider for scary sharp and wider stones like Shaptons. Two rollers directly side by side are perfect for the Shaptons. I got them to sell me a second one a few years ago, and since I see they now offer the second roller as a standard accessory. This will guarantee absolutely straigh across flat blade edges, but if you like to rock the holder sligtly to dub off the very ends, it is easy to use just one roller and add or remove the second by just loosening a single screw.

And of course, as you can see from the website, you can obtain this guide with a number of added features, including dressing stones and dry grinder supports. I haven't tried any of those, but I've seen the instructions for them and they look well thought out.


http://www.prairieriverwoodworking.com/products.asp?parid=10

Re: Sharpening system recommendation

Bill Hale / The Wood Spinner

>Tormec and grinder. The Tormec seems expensive at first untill you consider how much longer your tools will last. The system maintains a consistent shape so you remove less metal. In my judgement I believe it inexpensive compared to the cost of wearing out expensive tools.

Good turning and be safe

Bill

Re: Question from a Non-Turner

Lyn J. Mangiameli

>Ah, wanted to keep me in the mine field did you.

If there is any area of more controversy in woodturning than what grinder to use, it surely must be how sharp your tools should be.

There are a lot of turners who find they achieve an edge that provides them with fully acceptable results right off a 60 grit wheel. I know this seems incredulous to us hand tool afficionados, but they can point so some outstanding work done by themselves and even some famous turners that was done with only such an edge.

There are others, including such major woodturning figures as Jerry Glaser and Rudy Osolnik, that believe an edge must be much more refined, but often acheive this by dry honing a edge off a coarse stone (and even then they only come in at about the 1200 grit level at best).

I comment a bit more about this in the article I linked to.

For myself, I believe an edge in the 200 grit range offers the best compromise between edge life, tool life, surface finish and easy of generation, for shape forming cuts with a gouge. For finish cuts and for skews, I like the edge off the 1000 graded surface of the Tormek, and rarely refine it much further. I will oftentimes take cutting hollowing tools to a chromium oxide belt sander belt for maintainance, which of course does leave a finer edge, though probably more so than necessary.

Don, keep in mind that turning tools cover more distance in a few seconds than a hand plane or chisel will do in hours of use, thus extremely fine edges are soon eroded away. One also has the speed of the cut working in ones favor to achieve a final cut. But also keep in mind that many a turner spends almost as long sanding their turnings as they do making the shape.

So to end with a somewhat biased comment, compared to hand tool folks, turners often just have different sensibilities and different traditions that influence their feelings about acceptable sharpness more than objective rationale based on controlled studies of edge life and effectiveness.

Re: Sharpening recommendation (very long)

Lyn J. Mangiameli

>Never a war with you, Arch. I always appreciate the perspective, humor, and well written prose you bring to these discussions.

Thank you Lyn!

MikeinCapeMay

>I'm looking into it.

Follow up questions (Long)

Todd M

>Lyn,

A few follow ups, if you don't mind.

Tormek: a. You say that it doesn't give a refined edge for plane blades. I'm assuming you aren't using the leather wheel and honing paste for a finer grit, but not sure why not. Is it because it would need to be free hand, or that that the leather wheel isn't consistently flat and round for straight edges?

b. So, if I use the Tormek for turning tools, are you using the Tormek jig for gouges, or a separate aftermarket unit? If you are using the Tormek one, are there limitations on what it can do, or will it work all the profiles you may want?

c. Lastly, if I want to use the Tormek for other uses, like planer blades, or kitchen knives (lots of them), am I going to be using up a lot of the wheel by having to flatten it each time after using it for gouges? I'd hate to think such a unit is used solely for gouges, but I guess if it is, the point of what you are saying is that you won't get an easier, better finish on the gouges that takes off little of the metal and is very accurately repeatable.

Veritas MkII Sharpening System:

Depending on what the answer to question "a" above is, I think I would go with this system for flat blades, based on what you and others have said. It certainly has been highly rated in the woodworking magazines. How many additional platters would you recommend I get, and at what grits (and brands) if I really wanted to get the best edge? What would you say is the time savings in using this unit over sharpening on Shaptons or other waterstones? That is, I'm trying to determine what the $300 price is getting me with the QPSS. I believe it is quick and easy repeatable sharpening.

Kelton: Lastly, just wanted to bounce off you that, if I went with the dry grinder for rough work, you think the Kelton does everything you need to do that a Tru-grind or Wolverine does. Space is not an issue. I'm primarily using smaller gouges now, but am looking forward to moving to larger ones sooon. Does the Kelton cover both size ranges equally?

Lastly, if you are using Shaptons or other waterstones to flatten the backs of chisels and plane irons a) how much of the back do you flatten, and b) what do you recommend to flatten the stones after repeated wear?

Thanks for your input.

Todd

Re: Follow up questions (Long)

Lyn J. Mangiameli

>In order:

Todd: "Tormek: a. You say that it doesn't give a refined edge for plane blades. I'm assuming you aren't using the leather wheel and honing paste for a finer grit, but not sure why not. Is it because it would need to be free hand, or that that the leather wheel isn't consistently flat and round for straight edges?"

No, I don't consider the edge of a Tormek, whether used with or without the honing wheel to be optimal for flat blade use when final surface finish is important. The wheel uses 220 grit aluminum oxide abrasives in a ceramic binder. The surface of the wheel can be fractured (graded) with the Tormek stone grader to give a thin surface of about 1000 grit. So at that level, the edge is far from up to fine hand tool standards. The paste used with the leather wheel is a proprietary mix, but near as can be discerned, the Tormek compound contains a variety of grains of various size, the smallest down to 0.7 micron. The average effective size is 3 micron. Now this isn't shabby, and in the range of an 4000 waterstone. Undermagnification, I can clearly discern a finer scratch pattern from both Shapton and King 8000 waterstones (not to mention the Shapton 12000 and new 15000), and .5 and .3 micron microfine abrasive sheets. Part of the problem is that the Tormek compound does not offer a tightly graded abrasive, so their are many "stray" relatively deeper scratches. I prefer to bring my best edges into the range of consistent 1 micron scratch patterns or less.

As for the leather wheel, it is OK for crude honing, but it is too compressible, and lacks a precision jigging system (as most use it free hand rather than removing and switching end for end the Universal Support Bar). It is way too easy to polish and edge that gives the illusion of it being more refined, but which also has degraded the geometry of the edge. So no, I don't find that the honing wheel or the honing paste brings the edge to a level of refinement that is not only preferable, but achievable through other methods.

Todd: "b. So, if I use the Tormek for turning tools, are you using the Tormek jig for gouges, or a separate aftermarket unit? If you are using the Tormek one, are there limitations on what it can do, or will it work all the profiles you may want?"

I have three Universal gouge jigs each set to a specific setting. One is for all my Glaser Bowl Gouges, one is set for all my Glaser Spindle and Detail Gouges, and one is set for a custom configuration that I use for most other gouges. It is not necessary to have the seperate jigs, but it greatly speeds up the time for sharpening to not have to readust them for the different grinds. With the Kelton rig, I have made up an adapter that allows me to use the Tormek gouge jigs with a dry grinder. So again, I mostly stick with the Tormek jigs for gouges. This is not to say that I can't achieve identical grinds using the Woodcut TruGrind or the Kelton or Wolverine Multi/VariGrinds, but since I can carry one jig between both a dry grinder and the Tormek, I mostly stick with the Tormek Universal Gouge Jig.

Todd: "c. Lastly, if I want to use the Tormek for other uses, like planer blades, or kitchen knives (lots of them), am I going to be using up a lot of the wheel by having to flatten it each time after using it for gouges? I'd hate to think such a unit is used solely for gouges, but I guess if it is, the point of what you are saying is that you won't get an easier, better finish on the gouges that takes off little of the metal and is very accurately repeatable. "

Yes, that is exactly what my experience has been. A couple of things to keep in mind. One, the Tormek starts with a very large wheel (two inches wide and almost 10 inches in diameter, but not quite) and is very usable down to at least 8 inches and potentially even less. That is a lot of material (and a great deal more than a typical 8 inch dry grinding wheel). That will for most turners result in very long life (I have yet to need to replace a wheel, but obviously this will depend on how hard you press against the wheel and how frequently you need to sharpen tools--I predominantly use Glaser gouges that have exceptional edge retention and need little sharpening). Grading the wheel removes only the most miniscule amout of material, and flattening the wheel isn't going to that strongly effect wheel life as most turners are going to use it predominantly for gouges where considerable dishing can occur without problem. Think how often you are going to actually be needing to sharpen planer blades or kitchen knives. I have three sets of planer blades and I sharpen the all at once, about once a year. I sharpen my wife's Wusthof knives about twice a year at most. So other than for skews (which can go a long time between sharpenings if you regularly hone them), and assuming you arent' tryig to use the Tormek to maintain you plane and chisel flat blades, you are likely to find yourself actually flattening the stone rather infrequently.

Todd: "Veritas MkII Sharpening System:

Depending on what the answer to question "a" above is, I think I would go with this system for flat blades, based on what you and others have said. It certainly has been highly rated in the woodworking magazines."

Forgive me for this more personal comment, but most magazine reviews of this machine have been utter junk, that neither really understood it's operation or capabilities. There are lots of good reasons to like the QPSS, but the magazine "review" give a darn poor reason to. Now leaving my soap box...

Continuing with Todd:" How many additional platters would you recommend I get, and at what grits (and brands) if I really wanted to get the best edge? What would you say is the time savings in using this unit over sharpening on Shaptons or other waterstones? That is, I'm trying to determine what the $300 price is getting me with the QPSS. I believe it is quick and easy repeatable sharpening."

Yes, my experience is that the QPSS does give quick, quiet, repeatable, precision sharpening that allows for a wide range of abrasive sizes to be used. The other specifics of your question can be found explained in detail in the recent archives of WC.

Todd: "Kelton: Lastly, just wanted to bounce off you that, if I went with the dry grinder for rough work, you think the Kelton does everything you need to do that a Tru-grind or Wolverine does. Space is not an issue. I'm primarily using smaller gouges now, but am looking forward to moving to larger ones sooon. Does the Kelton cover both size ranges equally?"

Yes, with all its attachments, it will do everything the TruGrind will do, and with what I expect to be a soon to be released skew attachement will do everything the Wolverine will do except for the dedicated stone truing attachment (and there are lots of other ways to achieve this). This is not to knock the TruGrind or the Wolverine, which are both quite credible systems, and the TruGrind clearly is a more compact system. The Kelton is unique at this point in having a socket and post system that allows for height adjustments which makes initial set up easier, and allows for a wide range of other jigs (including the TruGrind itself) to be used. Frankly I don't think you can go too wrong with either system, as they are both well designed and you even can easily use them together (at least you can use the TruGrind Jig, scraper rod, and hollowing tool adapter with the KeltonJ). I like them both, but ultimately, the Kelton has more present and future adaptability.

Todd: "Lastly, if you are using Shaptons or other waterstones to flatten the backs of chisels and plane irons a) how much of the back do you flatten, and b) what do you recommend to flatten the stones after repeated wear?"

This was recently discussed in detail on WC, probably if you scroll down less than a week, you will find the thread. Don did a great job of collecting several of my past public and private emails on the topic.

Re: Follow up questions (Long)

Todd M

>Lyn,

Thank you very much for taking the time to share such detailed information and experiences.

Todd