The bottom line of chisels- a guide to one's first (and maybe last) set.

Narex, maybe?

Narex was my first "full" (metric) set, but I jumped to Japanese and started a slow accumulation of LV PMV11. Right now I consider the LV's to be paring chisels, and always forget about the Narex (English) mortise chisels. For the mortise I have, I prefer the Ashley-Iles D2 chisels. 

Japanese chisels can really burn one's wallet. I finally have a good set from Stan Covington, and a marginally nasty set, probably sourced from Woodcraft. But they do impress, so one in a couple of the most used sizes (or, near) are nice. Consider Japanese chisels a pricey hunt, in new or used condition.

I guess I prefer whaling on butt chisels (ore-nomi) and stroking the Narex and LV longer ones. Metric Narex was an oops on my part. The Narex must be rehandled, however. Narex likes lots of stone time mixed with wood. LV needs stone time, and more. I wished Eliot would read my subtle offers more closely; and, take a few sharpened pieces with the NOS. 

Re: The bottom line of chisels- a guide to one's first (and maybe last) set.

I regard the LV PMV11 chisels at the upper limit of affordable

Bill, affordability is relative, as you know. I have and love the Veritas PM-V11 chisels. I like the steel, I like the handles, and I like their balance. Others may not feel the same way. But I also have some quite expensive (much more than PM-V11) and now rare Kiyohisa Japanese chisels. In fact I have a set of paring and a set of oire nomi/bench chisels. And I love using them. I do not baby my tools. Nothing is sacred. Ask Wiley about good Japanese chisels. Bruce, too, has this experience. But I would not recommend them (if they were available) to someone looking to get best bang for their buck simply because they are not the best bang for the buck. Their are other Japanese chisels worth looking at, such as Koyamaichi. Candidates for that crown in Western chisels include Veritas, Ashley Iles and Narex Richter. 

Regards from Perth

Derek

Re: The bottom line of chisels- a guide to one's first (and maybe last) set.

I have recommended buying individual chisels and not sets on this forum for 15 years or more. Buying chisels from different manufacturers gives a person some hands on experience with different types. It is risky buying a whole set; it is all too easy to buy the set that is best marketed by the manufacturer. And some who post are awfully persuasive about their choices and then five years later are touting something else.

Completely agree

If I put all my favorite, most-used chisels together on my bench there wouldn't be two of the same brand. Most are vintage of some sort and many needed work to restore them to useful condition. I picked them up gradually over the years as I found I needed a new width or type of chisel, or if I came across a nice one at a good price.

When I started training in 1978 I bought a set of four Stanley butt chisels which I still own but use only for rough carpentry work. They're OK but for every task I use chisels for I have another, better chisel I'd rather use.

Re: The bottom line of chisels

I will add some more obtuse thoughts, for a first chisel.... Where to start???? 

Where to buy? Make it simple. Go to Lee Valley. You can get a set of 4 sizes for $75, or/and then, up to $430 for five that will do the same things. Bash construction framing, or tap at dovetails. However, one is more suited than another for specific jobs. But for now, don't worry; read on.

Why Lee Valley? Well, where you go to buy is up to you. LV just has more credibility and offers decent quality in multiple brands of hand tools. There is far more safety and security in quality then say, the-Bay or Big Grin with no protection, or quality. But, at LV quality and service cost; up front anyway.

The unseen, the hidden details? This topic can go a million miles and take hundreds of detours, so you want to be circumspect. Consider the most basic. Sharp. A two-by-four will crumble to the dullest blade, or chisel. A dovetail wants the keenest edge you can hone. Google "the unicorn sharpening method". You want fast! Unicorn it. You want cheap! Unicorn it. Need I say more? Yes! What about all of those stones for sharpening; all those motorized tables, wheels, and suckey devices? That's capitalism, and you are the mark with the wallet.

How long you stay sharp has a lot to do with the price of the tools offered. How long you sharpen has a lot to do with the hardness, and price, of the tools you choose. As someone who hand sharpens over stone, a hard steel is no faster at cutting than a softer one requiring more sharpening more often. In fact, hard steel is so bad I will avoid using it in order to avoid sharpening. 

Another factor for the circumspect buyer. When you get a cheap set of tools this means there is a certain amount of work in "tuning" them to be good enough to work properly. Trouble is, one needs to know what to do (and, see) to fix what's wrong. For this reason alone, go for the tool that is midst of cheapest and costliest. I hear Narex, low end of midst, brand are rife with tuning opportunities. They have decent steel however. Going to European brands includes hundreds of years of experience in optimising sharpening and use. They just come in exasperating metric sizes; unless you don't care, but be aware one size (metric/Imperial) almost requires matched tools.

A one-off size tool is fine. However, second hand can be a costly mistake that lands you in the cheapest of the new bracket. A set of four tools is a decent number to launch with.

I think this is enough information to avoid too much fear and confusion.

Oh, don't look for any chisels in the brands mentioned here. You won't find any but the cheapest. Post Pandemic--and pre/while-unavailability is the advertised culprit.

Didn't you disagree?

"When I started training in 1978 I bought a set of four Stanley butt chisels which I still own but use only for rough carpentry work."  And when I started I bought a set of the "blue handles" affairs.  You described how you started.  My question was current advice on where others would be advised to start.  

Warren makes an important point.  Ergonomics is so important, and individual, that a lot of money should not be invested in a set/collection of chisels without trying a few, by one means or another.  And, a lot of money should not be invested in a collection of chisels until the chisels needed for the kind of work to be done becomes apparent.  

I have made the assumption that someone starting a hobby or career making furniture or installing house trim is not going to be properly served by buying one chisel, then building a desk with it before deciding on the next one to buy.  Rather they will begin with a few, call it a set if you wish.  Are you recommending a different way to begin than how you began?  Would the choice today be Stanley, and if not, what?  In my case I would not recommend Blue Handles.  The steel in mine is crap and the handles weigh a ton.  

We all started somewhere, and likely we started with a set, or collection as defined as more than 1,  of chisels from one source.   Following Warren's advice a first "set" of chisels could be composed of one of each anticipated size from enough makers to have a versatile beginning set and exposure to several styles.  But this advice just ducked the heart of my original question.  If this route is pursued, what manufactures should be chosen?  (many will find this route daunting a prefer suggestions of one source to buy a starter set)

A comment was made that someone on this Forum changed their mind about what chisel was "best". Over the years if someone didn't alter their advice to the original question I posed, it would mean there have been no changes in choices, or the person was not keeping abreast of these changes.    

Re: Didn't you disagree?

To your question, "Are you recommending a different way to begin than how you began?" I guess I am. I'd look for a flea market or other source where I could look at and hold different chisels and see what felt comfortable in my hand, compare the shapes of the blades and just get a sense of what might make a chisel good or bad.

You have a valid point that my response didn't address your question about what currently available maker I'd suggest. I don't have experience with any of the lower-priced sets and I wouldn't recommend Veritas PM-V11 to a beginner. My first use of a grinder was on my Stanleys and there was quite a learning curve. Starting with a simpler carbon steel tool that was comfortable in the hand and neither rare nor expensive would allow mistakes to be made and corrected and eventually yield a tool that was a keeper. That's unless it was like the blue-handled ones you mentioned or the set I bought from the same maker that I gave to Goodwill decades ago, wondering if it would be better just to throw them away instead. Fortunately most older chisels have pretty good steel.

flea market

For years I looked for flea market chisels.  You could troll for years here in East TN and not see a hand tool worth owning.  Even at the gigantic Hillsville market each fall there usually are no chisels worth considering.  The MWTCA meets are more promising but the ones I have attended are not sure things for finding useable chisels.  

Re: Didn't you disagree?

“ Starting with a simpler carbon steel tool that was comfortable in the hand and neither rare nor expensive would allow mistakes to be made and corrected and eventually yield a tool that was a keeper.‘

Important point—sharpening.  If someone is starting out with chisels, it’s likely they’re a beginning sharpener too.  Which presents a whole other decision tree—flat bevel, hollow grind, or convex like the English guy in TX?  What kind of grinder and wheel?  Arkansas stones, ceramic stones, diamond stones, sandpaper…?  Each branch of the sharpening tree has strong advocates, so that string of decisions will be perplexing when starting out.  

I like Steve’s wisdom of something easier to sharpen, as in straight high-carbon, as opposed to abrasive-resistant alloy steel like A2 or PMV-11.  No one mentioned Pfeil (Swiss Made) sold by Woodcraft.  Their gouges come working sharp, which is beneficial because you have an example in your hand of what “sharp’ means—their straight chisels are likely the same.  The gouges are a proprietary steel (Cr-Vanadium I think), but sharpen up nicely.  The straight chisels would surely be the same steel.

Wiley

Re: flea market

Bill makes a valid point. Not everyone lives in a flea market rich area. We may have one once a year, and I may not hear of it as a beginner. And then it is pot luck what is there .. overpriced worn out vintage chisels? Chisels with unknown temper?

Beginners are not the ones to receive our recommendations. Logically it would seem that they are, but the beginner goes to the big box store and buys a couple of chisels there. It is only once they have a little experience, and meet other woodworkers or join a forum, that they ask for advice. This is the group with which I associated Bill

s original request. Hence a better chisel, with quality steel, and decent ergonomics.

Regards from Perth

Derek

Re: The bottom line of chisels- a guide to one's first (and maybe last) set.

I have a set of Marples Blue Chip (pre-Irwin) that are still my work-horse chisels.  They are polished and sharp.  I like the rounded square handles a lot.

The best thing about Marples Blue Chip ...

... is a Unicorn bevel.   Mine suck without this.

Regards from Perth

Derek

Re:Marples Blue Chip ... I wonder....?

Will the others in this price range show the same gleam under the Unicorn Method? 

If so, then the recommended first chisel set should include this lowly example of thrift, to which one includes a new 8-inch diameter grinder and buffing wheel--for the Unicorn. Then the most critical learning curve won't be so costly. 

In today's USD inflated 2022 dollars, a set of 4 or more under $100 would be reasonable. That includes Irwin, Blue Chip Marples, LV "Yellow Handled"--has anyone experience with these--Harbor Freight, and more. The point is, Newbie has a modest useable set of tools that they can use for training wheels.  

Re: The bottom line of chisels- a guide to one's first (and maybe last) set.

OK Derek and Bruce

1. Please explain the unicorn reference.  I sharpen mine on diamond and water stones.
2. Maybe I'm ignorant, but what does a more expensive set of chisels bring to the table that I will never experience with mine?  Yes, I had to spend considerable time flattening, sharpening and honing, but that is all behind me now.  What am I still missing?

Re: The bottom line of chisels- a guide to one's first (and maybe last) set.

Thank you!