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Making Many of One thing...

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Making Many of One thing...

#1

Making Many of One thing...

David Weaver

Rather than making one or two and then moving on and trying something new.

I've maybe made 8 or 10 chisels now in total - it hasn't changed a lot since last week, I finished 3 chisels.

But what I'm noticing (Especially since I don't do a lot of this work) is how much better #8 looks than #1 or #2 did, and how much easier it is to kind of get there (and there's still more improvement). Initially, I thought it would be a stretch to make myself a set (and before that yet, I thought the idea of making nice chisels was kind of dumb as the going rate for a good vintage English chisel is about $20).

But the little knife in this picture and a bunch like it kind of changed my mind after I made the same style of knife out of an O1 iron cutoff and noticed how much tougher the file steel edge was (not longer wearing in easy use, just less likely to deflect and less likely to hold a wire edge when sharpening).

AT any rate, in my youth, I never had the tolerance to do anything twice. As I'm getting older (early 40s), I kind of have already settled into the idea that I'd rather make something 30 or 40 times to actually get good at it and then enjoy the predictable making (without taking the skill out).

I had two bottlenecks with this process that weren't deal killers - using MAPP gas in a paint can forge (which is a great way to heat an iron for hardening and tempering - just gets costly to hammer the irons and keep things in the heat) and my belt sander was one of the 1200 feet per minute home depot junkers. Without going bonkers, I upgraded both and the forge will work indefinitely. The sander is a direct drive 4x36 type (double the belt speed) that will remove scale quickly and make octagonal handles in a couple of minutes, but was neither as expensive as a true belt grinder nor as good (I want to keep doing most of the shaping by hammering).

The one surprise so far is that I've used all old files except for one chisel (for that one, I used american made 1095 bar stock). The files surprisingly make a more dry and nicer filing steel than the bar stock does, but it's hard to get a file that isn't gigantic that will yield a significant tang thickness. so the narrower chisels that I'm making would be kind of a hassle and a waste to make out of big files unless I find a gaggle of discarded square files (no luck so far).

I think to make something well is difficult if you limit yourself to needing to do it well on the first or second try. To give yourself some breathing room and make a few and then correct issues is a lot more enjoyable (but wouldn't be so on a huge piece of furniture).


(the black chisels have been hardened and tempered. The silvery ones haven't. I'm kind of on the fence about whether or not it even makes sense to remove the black cooked oil layer and oxide from the chisels. I get it that a trade grinder would make new ones look great by grinding and glazing that layer off, but I'm doing shaping pre-hardening and probably won't come up with a glazing setup to finish the chisels any further. Most of the later chisels got fairly rough treatment before they went to round bolsters and chunkier more smudged over bevels, but one of my older chisels - an LI&J white chisel - has perfectly proportioned bolster work that was carefully glazed afterward, and it just looks like a million bucks).

The bolster on the left has one point on the little triangles that needs to be filed a bit further (already did that after this picture), but I've got a system down to file these nicely and just a few more aesthetics to figure out - like getting a tapering bevel from the bolster through the length of the tang.


Haven't given any serious thoughts to getting a process down for the handles, though- they've just been quickie by-eye afterthought types so far.

Re: Making Many of One thing...

#2

Re: Making Many of One thing...

Oskar

damn!

they look great David. I wouldnt remove the black layer, looks good as it is.

How much of the chisel are you hardening, that is from the edge and backwards. all of it? When sharpening some of my vintage chisels a line appears on the back, I guess this is the border between hardened and not hardened steel?

Re: Making Many of One thing...

#3

Re: Making Many of One thing...

Wiley Horne

Hi David,

Really fine looking! Like Oskar, I think the oxide finish suits very well. I was just looking at some Tasai and Funatsu chisels—they all look great in black oxide. And it’s protective as well.

Could you go over again how the file chisels sharpen compared to O1 or 1095?

Wiley

Re: Making Many of One thing...

#4

Thanks and sharpening

David Weaver

Thanks Wiley and Oskar in regard to the appearance.

As far as the sharpening, the file steel sharpens like slightly soft japanese chisels. If they're left super hard, they exhibit the same behavior as very hard japanese chisels (tiny chipping). I'm guessing that they're in the ballpark of 62/63. Like japanese chisels do, they release their wire edge just as part of sharpening and whatever is left (now taken care of by unicorn, anyway) doesn't amount to much.

At the same hardness of O1, they have a fraction of the wire edge retention - maybe a fifth, and when they wear in use, they have only tiny little failures at the edge and continue to feel sharp.

As far as 1095, I read that many of the file blanks (including nicholson) are 1095 steel. I also bought bar stock of supposedly american 1095. The 1095 is similar in terms of wire edge, maybe slightly less "dry" feeling in the only chisel I've made from it, but in filing the chisels to final shape and size, the file steel just has a much nicer feel. It's wonderful. Most of the files that I've used are heller, but I've used files marked nicholson as well as "india" and all have had this. Maybe there's something wrong with my 1095, or maybe the carbon content is slightly different.

I think files are about as ideal as I've seen so far for chisels, but none of these have been used nearly as much as a chisel that's been around for a while, so who knows - maybe they'll break. I hope not, it'd be a shame if they do.

Re: Making Many of One thing...

#5

Re: Making Many of One thing...

David Weaver

They're fully hardened up to about half an inch from where the tang narrows, but I've noticed that just in subsequent reheating, the small size of the tang makes it so that the tang partially hardens but can still be filed. I find that to be ideal.

One of the easy ways to find out where older chisels change hardness is to be forced to clean a rusty chisels with an acid etch. Once everything is cleaned, it's clear that the hardened steel and the less hard steel are etched differently. The other way to tell is to use a natural abrasive of some sort that's silica based - hardened steel will be polished but softer steel is cut deeply and a transition line shows up.

I don't really have any idea what i"m doing, but one of the ways that you find out how to fix a problem is try something and see what the problems are. In this case, if one or some of these break, then I'll know where they break. Until then, it's wait and see. They feel more solid than I'd have expected as their cross section isn't that thick.

Re: Making Many of One thing...

#6

Rafael from PA

Re: Making Many of One thing...

Rafael from PA

I've some applewood if you want to try that for handles.

Re: Making Many of One thing...

#7

Re: Making Many of One thing...

Warren in Lancaster, PA

Here is what happens when you make a hundred of something by hand. After making a few you kind of resolve your technical issues, and after about the tenth item boredom sets in. You look at your stack of material and think "90 more of these". However after 25 or so you start to notice a change. You are hardly thinking about what you are doing, but surprisingly everything looks better: cleaner and crisper, more stylish, more charming and such. You are doing the work seemingly without any thinking, but there are no worries or problems, and relaxation sets in. When the last one is done you wish there were a hundred more.

Re: Making Many of One thing...

#8

Re: Making Many of One thing...

David Weaver

Hi, Rafael - thanks for the offer, but I couldn't take any in good conscience. I've got a boatload of beech, rosewood and olivewood.

Re: Making Many of One thing...

#9

Eight is part of the way there...

David Weaver

Embarrassingly, around 8, I figured out exactly how I should set up a mill file to file the facets easily and dippy little things like where to start on the corner facets on the bolster. It's smooth. I had safe edged/cornered files for the second or third chisel but was guessing on fitting the bolster steel a little bit and then filing and scuffing tangs a little different each time. Now the scuffing is a very small amount and easy to file off with a taper saw file.

But, I'm looking forward to having more and more small things become good by habit rather than by thought or prescription.

Re: Making Many of One thing...

#10

Re: Making Many of One thing...

John Aniano in central NJ

Warren,

An accurate and beautifully worded description.

John

Re: Making Many of One thing...

#11

Clint Searl

Re: Making Many of One thing...

Clint Searl

It takes a lot of practice and a zillion tosses in the air to become the world's best baton twirler, but it's still baton twirling.

Re: Making Many of One thing...

#12

Re: Making Many of One thing...

Steve Voigt

I've been making the same handful of items for about six years now. For me, there was large improvement in the first dozen or so, but small incremental improvements have continued to come. It's like approaching a horizontal asymptote.

I've heard Matt Bickford remark several times that the planes continue to get better, and he's made way more than I have.

Re: Making Many of One thing...

#13

Re: Making Many of One thing...

David Weaver

At Penn state, you could be blue sapphire, twirl fire, and wear sequins.

Ok, I didn't do it, but a girl from my high school did. All it took was 5 hours of practice each day during her jr high school years.

I think it'll take me less time to learn to make good chisels.

Re: Making Many of One thing...

#14

Re: Making Many of One thing...

Oskar

exactly, it is on natural stones I´ve seen this.

Re: Making Many of One thing...

#15

different motivation

Bill Tindall, E.Tn.

During a demonstration Curtis Buchannan said that he had made about 30,000 chair spindles. He turns one effortlessly and to perfection, and undoubtedly gets satisfaction from this ability or he would pursue another craft.

Some kinds of woodworking demand this level of commitment to achieve the perfection that comes from repetition. Turning and carving come to mind. I turn a decent bun foot. I offered one to Alan Batty for critique and improvement. He removed a tiny fraction of an inch of wood in a couple of places and an acceptable foot became perfect, and obvious even to my eye.

If one's goal in life is to make bun feet, Windsor chairs or cabriole legs the path Warren describes is necessary to attain the perfection needed for this work. 99 bun feet for the fireplace is the price to get the satisfaction of making the 100th effortlessly and perfect. This path will not lead to satisfaction for everyone.

Suppose you need a place to store your socks, or variety is the spice of your life? The path Warren describes won't get you to an end. Good enough replaces perfect as the goal. I have made about 100 major pieces of furniture. Every one could be significantly improved had I made 100 of one of them, or even 10. I had neither the need or motivation to make 2, though I wound up making three similar 7 drawer chests of drawers. The third was drudgery with dovetailed drawers fabricated to standards to get them done, not perfection.

I made 3 spice boxes for wife and daughters. They were ok enough to place in a competition for this kind of furniture. It became a job not an enjoyment to get he 3rd finished. Granddaughters came along and I made two more, significantly better than the first 3. I could not be paid enough to make 2 more. I just don't get any satisfaction from making the same thing.

I like the challenge of solving the problems of a new task, not perfecting the processes of a single product. Not a better way to spend ones time, just different.

Re: Making Many of One thing...

#16

The urge....

David Weaver

...I don't mind making furniture, despite doing little of it. I didn't like it at first, so not minding it is better.

When I make something about once a year (i mean something decent aside from stuff like bunk beds), I see places where I'd like to do better, but making another of the same thing has never been an immediate urge.

For whatever reason, with small items, it's different. I'd love to have no job for five years and do nothing but make tools. i'd get tired of making furniture items pretty quickly - maybe it's tactile, maybe it's lack of attention span. Who knows.

Re: Making Many of One thing...

#17

Re: Making Many of One thing...

William Duffield

I'm just clarifying a minor typo, just in case someone here wants to find some high quality antique chisels or other cutlery made in Buffalo, NY. Hopefully it will save us a little search engine frustration.

The company's name is L&IJ White (not LI&J).

Re: Making Many of One thing...

#18

Re: The urge....

Wiley Horne

Some like wood; some like steel. And then there is the carbon atom—incredible!

Wiley

Re: Making Many of One thing...

#19

Re: Making Many of One thing...

David Weaver

Oops. I'm sure I have mild dyslexia. Order has never mattered to my brain.

Unfortunately, it matters to other people!!

That brand L&IJ (that'll never stick for me) is more similar to english tools than most american brands ever were. I don't see them horribly often, but often enough to have a couple of them.

Re: Making Many of One thing...

#20

that was probably an overstatement..

David Weaver

..I've seen relatively tubby socketed stuff from them, too, but they are one of the few makes that I've had where the tang chisels were made a lot like sheffield cabinet chisels (not fat at the tang, and not really fat anywhere else on the chisels - makes for a point and shoot kind of tool where the blade goes wherever the handle does rather than feeling like a handled pendulum.

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