Back Finish Omnibus

Stone recommendations?

Winston

For someone who knows almost nothing about oilstones, can you recommend something that works similarly to the washita you've been using? Synthetic or natural, either way is is fine with me. I probably have a slight preference for synthetic, if only because it's more likely to be consistent.

for similarity to washitas....

David Weaver

...you need washitas. There's nothing else really identical. A soft arkansas can cut reasonably finely if it's never abraded, but they never get places where the washita goes and they usually aren't any faster.

The black and trans ark stones are great finishing stones, but they lack the cutting power that pressure on the washita has.

A good suita or really strong cutting tomae stone that is just a little soft will do a japanese version of the same thing - self slurry with pressure, but not without.

Re: Stone recommendations?

Mike In Los Angeles

I got a Lily White and a No1 Washita, paid through the nose for them but I had to know. Still getting to know them, still finishing on my trans Arkansas, would love to read a rundown on different ways to use the Washitas.

Re: Stone recommendations?

David Weaver

Mike, it pretty much comes down to whether you let the stone settle in or not (i know some folks love the cutting action of the stones, and the feel, if the surface is abraded).

I have replaced my finishing stones with them, generally, and you can see why based on the two pictures I showed - with the right touch, they match black and trans.

If the surface is never scuffed, then they behave like the two modes I showed. Sort of fine with very heavy pressure and very fine with light. And they keep that range without ever really stopping.

Japanese tools wake the surface up a little bit (the soft backing on them kind of refreshes the surface), but if they're full hardness, the hardened layer remains really sharp and with a wonderful level of polish. The kasumi finish is outstanding. (this one hides a secret from the unicorning, you can see it at the edge of one of the pictures). It's very hard to get a better kasumi finish than this and the washita does it in about 15 seconds after the buffer had made most of it shiny.

Re: Stone recommendations?

Rafael

I recently bought a Washita that after cleaning and flattening was uniformly white in color. Its dimensions are 8x2x1, so it's pretty certain it was factory made and graded. It's a pretty aggressive stone. As you sharpen a blade you can feel the abrasive action.

On the other hand I have a number of washita stones of non-standard sizes, they cut slower than the white one, they're mottled rust colored stones. I go to the strop, and now the buffing wheel, after one of these stones.

The graded washitas sold by Norton (Lily White, no. 1, no. 2, Rosy Red) were sold with additional qualifications, on a sticker applied on one end of the stone. "Soft" stones were fast cutting, "fine" stones were harder slow cutting stones.

Re: Stone recommendations?

Warren in Lancaster, PA

Unlike the hard Arkansas stone, The Washita will show some wear over the years.

I have used a Washita since 1977. I use one side for plane irons and wide chisels. When sharpening I ride the edge of the stone so that the whole width gets worn evenly.

The other side I use for gouges and narrow chisels and such. A gouge or a 1/16 chisel would be too hard to sharpen overlapping the edge. This side gets dished, but it does not affect the function of the tools.

Re: Stone recommendations?

David Weaver

one of my two was used by a carver. He must've sharpened knives on one of the narrow edges. It had shaped grooves in it from use (they weren't neatly made, more that they looked like the artifact of sharpening gouges in the same place over and over and then using that as an asset). The narrow side is bowed concave.

It's an excellent stone, but as you say, with heavy use, stuff comes off. The more pointed a tool is, and the more laminated tools are used, the faster it comes off. The softer the tool steel is (if they're used on soft knives, which also have a small contact point), the faster particles come off. Super hard steel seems to smash the particles in place and then there's little feel of cutting action. The simple act of sharpening a V11 tool on a washita can really grade it finer and slower.

I do the same to even wear - tending to use one end of the stone at a time and overlapping the edges as it'll wear hollow in the center. I've had trans stones that will slowly wear in the center, and it can be seen because they will collect swarf in a thin layer where they're hollow (This layer must be a thousandth or a tiny number of thousandths deep). It's not a practical problem if it's minimal, just one that I can see. I hate to lap them because then they behave differently for a couple of weeks before they settle in again.

Re: Stone recommendations?

Mike In Los Angeles

This is all good for confirming what I’ve been seeing. I haven’t seen mine do much polishing (at all) but that might be a matter of settling in or finger pressure. Have you had any good or bad luck rubbing two washitas together like machinists do with india stones ?

no....no rubbing...

David Weaver

find the hardest tool you have and work the back on the washita for a while.

What I've found is that the very fine washitas will always be kind of fine. The coarser softer type when settled in will get very fine working, but it takes a little while.

If you have PM V11, the chromium in it (i'm guessing that's what's doing it) grades the stone to slower pretty quickly. This makes for an interesting effect as V11 takes a surprisingly good edge off of it, but it works more like a finishing stone with it and less like a medium stone.

Re: no....no rubbing...

Mike In Los Angeles

No idea what these are, got em second hand, thought maybe gold chip but??

Anyways they’re too hard for natural stones to do much with, I switched to the old EZ Laps at some point. Did notice the Pike stone wanted to do a lot less work afterwards.

Re: no....no rubbing...

David Weaver

Interesting.....actually have no clue what those are. They look almost like crown or marples, but not quite the same shape as any that I've seen.

less like any sorby (and a hard sorby chisel would've been a complete failure of process for them, it seems!!).

Finishing the tips and backs of the big one on a washita for a while would probably slow the stone down and give it more range.