Chris and Adam, *LINK*

Re: Chris and Adam,

Christopher Schwarz

>It's a Chunnel bench!

The angled-leg base looks straight out of Charles Hayward, a British 20th century writer. It's a very common English feature and way of dealing with a tool well.

Love the rising dovetail he uses to assemble the front dovetail.

All in all, I like a wider, longer bench, without a tool well or a drawer under the top.

But that's me.

Chris

Re: Chris and Adam,

Adam Cherubini

>Yeah, he's taken some of the best attributes of the french bench- its length, the simplicity of its joinery, and sorta...dashed them away.

I've not seen a lot of these shows. I'd like to sit down and watch them all. My impression from speaking with him is that his goal is not to present Old Yankee workshop project plans, but rather show techniques, joinery, and some neat ideas that we could use in our own designs. From that perspective, I think its really cool.

Nicholson had a tool chest inside his bench that I've never seen reproduced. I think it would be cool if someone made such a bench. I promise to like it even if it isn't 8+ feet long.

Adam

Nicholson Bench Storage *LINK*

Christopher Schwarz

>I wrote a short blog entry with images that shows some of these storage options for a Nicholson-style (English) bench.

Check it out below if you're a bench geek.

Chris


Bench storage

Re: Chris and Adam,

Pam Niedermayer - Austin, TX

>I'm not too crazy about tool wells either; but I thought the angled rear leg would be a great way to add stability to a narrow bench, especially a narrow long bench.

On the link below, love that sliding leg vise.

Pam

Re: Chris and Adam,

Pam Niedermayer - Austin, TX

>Ah, Adam, you've become such a crusty boy. :) What would you recommend to replace those dovetails, given the solid bench top? I can't imagine a more stable arrangement.

I've been trying to rationalize that below-top toolbox, it's so neat; but I know the top of it is just too enticing for temporarily putting things on it, therefore turning the toolbox into a tool tomb.

Pam

Re: Chris and Adam,

Jeff

>Roy mentions in the first episode that he had a 10' slab of maple and could have made one bench with a longer top or two 5' long benches.

Second, the original Roubo joinery is not as simple as is implied. The leg-to-top joint contains a through dovetail and straight tenon in combination. It is complex enough that I have yet to see it show up in any recent Roubo style benches discussed or illustrated in this forum, with the exception of Rob Tarule's version as illustrated in The Workbench Book.

Further, the complexity of the leg-to-top joint that Roy added was strictly due to the splayed rear legs, which were required for supporting the narrow working surface. (This was required whether or not the tool tray is part of the design.) The narrow working surface was directly related to the size of the slab he was working with, and he noted how difficult it is to obtain large width slabs such as is found on the original Roubo. Hence, we see the modern adaptations all laminations.

So, in my opinion, given the narrow slab that he had to work with, the joinery is actually more faithful to the original Roubo than most modern adaptations.

I would agree with Pam on the toolbox. It seems to me it would collect additional tools and render the contents less accessible.

Below-bench-top tool storage

Bill Houghton, Sebastopol, CA, the rain's here

>The way I treat my bench - as a flat surface on which stuff can get stacked - I might as well just make a box under the benchtop and nail it shut after I put the tools in.

My shop requires under-bench storage (unless I decide to cut my tool inventory to about 10% of what it currently is, an unlikely event), and I've currently got a bunch of cubbyholes - not a good solution. I'm considering drawers, set far enough back not to interfere with clamping options.

Re: Chris and Adam,

ThomD

>"I'm not too crazy about tool wells either; but I thought the angled rear leg would be a great way to add stability to a narrow bench, especially a narrow long bench."

Widening the base does add stability, but you have a wider space hogging footprint and just a smaller top or top and well. Not sure exactly how much of a leap forward any of that is. In Saint Roy's book (not sure which one) there is a bench that appears to be mounted on top of some sunken posts. Always liked that one, it is simple solid and subterranean, and can be as narrow as you like.

(Funny thing about the benches on the WWS set. He had a really nice one, I guess it's still there under all the junk. And then they seem to have gone through a period of embarassment when they made this tiny child bench, and he worked on that for several seasons. One got the feeling that someone criticized the show for using a bench nobody could possibly aspire to. More recently they have been making a new bench every few seasons.)

I'm not sure why there is such ecstatic welcome to all these minisculely different designs that appear on shows or in the press etc... I just make what fits in my shop and fits the way I do work. Roubo wasn't even a woodworker.

Re: Below-bench-top tool storage

Pam Niedermayer - Austin, TX

>Yeah, I think I'll do a Japanese tool system when/if I get the new shop done. They store tools on the wall, with the chisels low since they use them sitting, planes in the middle since they are used both standing and sitting, and saws up high. Below is a photo, too small but the best I could find, of one of Yazawa's tool wall.

Pam

Re: Chris and Adam,

Pam Niedermayer - Austin, TX

>I don't know about making a big deal about it, simply wanted comments on it. Seems to my internal engineer that the joinery and arrangement of the legs in this bench make an inherently more stable bench, even more than a much larger bench with legs straight down.

I'm also investigating how to make a synthesis of planing beam and western bench. It's unlikely that's possible, or even desirable, but it's a goal that's grabbed me.

Pam

About that dovetail joint

wilbur

>Actually, about that dovetail joint -- it's one of those puzzle dovetails. Is there any reason to think that it might not be as sturdy (or even more sturdy) than a regular dovetail?

Re: About that dovetail joint

Pam Niedermayer - Austin, TX

>Should be very steady once the rear leg and stretcher are installed to hold it in place.

Pam

Video won't work!

Dominic Greco in Richboro PA

>Darn, I know there is a work around for this problem! I had this happen before and was able to get it working. But for the life of me I can't remember how to get this to run.

Every time I click the link for an episode, I get the error message, "Unable to locate server. This server does not have a DNS entry. Please check the server name in the URL and try again."

Does anyone else get that? It happens with Firefox and IE.

See ya around,

Dominic

Roubo?!?!

Christopher Schwarz

>A.J. Roubo wasn't a woodworker?

Scott Landis's book goes on about how he WAS a woodworker, unlike Moxon. Do you have some sources I can track down?

Chris

Re: Chris and Adam,

Jeff

>Could it be that his original workbench is really just a prop on the set and that the original workbench is in his real shop? Does his use of the little bench coincide with filming on a set as opposed to the shows filmed in his actual shop? Inquiring minds and all.

'Course I could not tell you when this happened since Kentucky "public" television decided long ago not to air WWS over the public airwaves. It is reserved for cable customers in the Golden Triangle.

Hey Dom... *LINK*

Scott Burr in Ben Lomond CA

>You need Real Player installed to view the video. Here's the link.


Real Player

Re: Below-bench-top tool storage *LINK*

Paul M.

>Hi Bill,

Check out how I built my bench to accomodate under-bench storage, and not interfere with clamping to the top. I built the base with 2 stretchers above and below the toolbox. There's room above the upper strecher that can accomodate clamping space.


link_to_my_bench

My thinking is similar

Bill Houghton, Sebastopol, CA

>At the moment, I just have a 4" overhang at front. My shoplet is small enough that the bench must be against the wall, so I went ahead and used the wall as part of the bench structure - top rests on and is screwed to a 2x4 ledger lagged to the studs, and otherwise rests on tool storage. My first attempt was a simple plywood box with three bays for adjustable shelves - simple, but I don't much like it, as I'm always having to reach something at the back of a cubby. Next move will have drawers. I'm considering just watching the Sears sales and buying two rollaways that I'll level and bolt together, with 2x6 spacers on top. Not elegant or cheap, but fast, and those drawers are mighty convenient. California north coast humidity is stable enough that I've gotten away with storing in metal drawers for 34 years (winter is the worst here, not summer, but even then, the rust factor's been low as long as I keep stuff away from the unsealed concrete floor).

Lovely bench, Paul

Bill Houghton, Sebastopol, CA

>Maybe some day I'll have one like that.

Re: Chris and Adam,

ThomD

>"even more than a much larger bench with legs straight down."

I doubt that entirely, base area is really important and extra weight of a big top is also stabilizing. Possibly you mean in the sense that because the top is small and the legs widely splayed it will be more stable because you can't get purchase on it to tip it over. If the base was 4'x8' and the top was centered and 3" by 3" it would be very stable because you really can't easily apply a force in that small area that would de-stabilize it. But would it be more stable than the same bench with a huge top, where you only worked in the same 3"x3" area? Hard to see how. That's kinda like the situation here. The reality of bench use is likely to be that both (the Roy, and a roy with full width top) will be used along the front edge. will have the same base.

It's a hard argument to win either way, because there isn't any defined starting point. You can see the Roy as a narrow top with a wide base, or a normal base with a narrow top.

"I'm also investigating how to make a synthesis of planing beam and western bench. It's unlikely that's possible, or even desirable, but it's a goal that's grabbed me."

Me too. I sorta see most benches as just fancy beams on trestles. What features do you see as being essential to achieve the synthesis you refer to?

Sorry about the sermonizing. Your comon sense is not in question with me, I was just reacting to these endless threads on minor differences. I just bought Chris' book so I'm not even all that consistant in my objections.

Re: Chris and Adam,

Pam Niedermayer - Austin, TX

>I suppose Carl Svensson has come the closest with his bench in The Workbench Book. The features that would be real important are some section of 9" square on which I could plane and mortise with an extension of 15-20" of 2" or 3" thick so I could also work on much wider pieces. It would have to be tiltable on one end. Perhaps a modification of what I have now, much, much longer and thicker. I also think I'd like a shoulder or leg vise and/or and end vise of some sort.

And then the rational part says just have separate beam and bench, it's stupid to go for a combo.

Pam