Genetically modified trees *LINK*

Do they raise GM trees...

Rob Lee

>... from "stem" cells?

:)

Re: Do they raise GM trees...

Denis Ch�nard, Orl�ans, Ont.

>Groan... :-)

DC

Great Idea

Frank D. in Montreal

>Now we have a new way to deplete the soil with extensive monocultures. Rapid-growth genetically modified trees for the paper industry have caused a lot of damage in Brazil and other South American countries. I guess we deserve our own gm trees, although somehow I doubt that Monsanto or whichever company came up with these will experiment with them in North America first. The arguments against gm trees in the article are weak and disporoportionately short, a typical straw man fallacy. Funny how the consume-at-all costs mentality makes us believe that environmentally disatrous practices are forms of sustainable development. Bio fuels are the best example of that delirium right now.

Branching out into comedy, Rob?

Bill Houghton, overcast in Sebastopol, CA

>Don't let the bright lights and comedy groupies distract you; we all need you to stick with your day job.

Re: Great Idea

Pat Mulligan

>Frank- You are so right.Funny how we never seem to hear suggestions that people simply start using less of everything.

Re: Do they raise GM trees...

Pam Niedermayer - Austin, TX

>They probably would [pun intended], but there are those who protest killing the tree embryos required to do so. They say it harms our trees in Iraq. :)

Pam, from the land of anti-science

Re: Great Idea

Pam Niedermayer - Austin, TX

>While I agree that the solution is not to go shopping, and I deplore our mindless consmer culture, I'm not all that sure we woodworkers have a lot of righteous legs on which to stand. Most of us consume tools like addicts, most woodworkers eat electricity like there's no tomorrow, and most of us don't exactly treat wood as precious, although we come closer to the precious wood treatment than most others.

Pam

Right you are, Frank!

VTAndy4

>

Re: Do they raise GM trees...

Norman (Ottawa, Ont.)

>I've read an inkling of this a while ago. Not quite genetically altered trees, but a system of feeding water injected with special colored dyes to trees in a tree lot.The water is absorbed into the tree from the ground through the standard capillary action and the result is dyed lumber.

The bio-fuel issue Frank mentioned is becoming quite controversial. It isn't supported in some Canadian jurisdictions such as Quebec but it is in Ontario. I'm referring to ethanol, converion of corn into fuel, and the economic and moral repurcussions of diverting and using food resources to create fuel for automobiles.

Just adding fuel to the fire :)

Norman

biofuels

jared

>Hello: I am a farmer in Iowa. I grow nearly a thousand acres of corn and soybeans. I too was sceptical of ethanol to start with but most of the questions regarding energy conversion, ie taking more inputs than what you get out of it, of a gallon of ethanol have been answered. On a personal level the increased price that I get for my grain has enabled me to do a lot for my family and my self, help fund a retirement home, etc. So for me it is great. THe ethanol plants are becoming much more efficient, able to produce more gallons of fuel from a bushel of corn. One thing that most people dont understand is that for a bushel of corn, 56 pounds, about three gallons of alcohol are produced and also about 30 pounds of distillers grain is left which is then turned into livestock feed. So the feed value of the grain is not destroyed. Also I believe that the conversion of the industry to cellulosic ethanol is starting and will become very rapid. It is possible that in ten years grain based alcohol will be largely obsolete. There is also a lot of scare talk about how much water it takes to produce a gallon of ethanol. A little research shows that it takes at least two gallons of water to refine a gallon of conventional gasoline and it takes a similar amount of water to ferment and distil a gallon of ethanol. And the end result is that the money spent to buy ethanol stays in this country and is not exported to the middle east which to me is a real plus. THings are not always what they seem especially when a lot of the opposition to biofuels is put out by big oil. Jared

Re: biofuels

Pam Niedermayer - Austin, TX

>That's good to hear, Jared; although I think we should shoot for using less water than gasoline refining. What do you think about growing/modifying trees for energy?

Pam

Re: Do they raise GM trees...

ThomD

>"economic and moral repurcussions of diverting and using food resources to create fuel for automobiles."

I don't think there are any serous ones. There were just as many reasons for objecting moraly and economically to feeding the cows, and that is without embracing anything PETA has to say, keeping the argument short of that point for now.

Other topic:

I doubt very much that the average woodworker, power tool or hand tool, has any impact on the environment qua woodwork. Heatng my shop is one thing, but the work that goes on inside is another. One could easily base a lifetime of work on just the material that is otherwise headed for a chipper. A lot of the nicest wood from our perspective, like burl, is just left to rot on mill property, unless someone goes out of the way to rescue it. Sraight grain stuff ends up in junk decks. And there are many potential uses of wood that are completely unrealized, it's rare for the many interesting products like cork from the c^&&*(%$$$ to have any market at all.

The reason wood is so cheap is because the price largely reflect factors outside of it's inherant worth, the cost of bringing it to market. At the margin, wood is free. So mostly we are just protecting it from the landfill. I have zero concern about wood use.

Re: biofuels

jared

>growing trees for energy is probably a good thing. I would be a little concerned about genetically modifying trees, due to the fact of possible unforseen results of escapes of pollen into the native, wild population. GM crops are one thing, affecting domesticated grain which most likely will not survive very many generations on its own in the wild and with a one year or less life cycle. A forest that takes a hundred years to mature is a completely different thing. jared