Adze

Re: Adze *LINK*

Pam Niedermayer - Austin, TX

>Several years ago I bought a Kestral adze, iron only, from Highland Hardware IIRC. It was about $40 US. Then made my own handle. A Google search yields the vendor below, with prices reflecting inflation (US price to the right of the CDN).

I like the Kestral a lot.

Pam


Kestral Adzes at Woodcarving Supplies

Re: Adze

Kevin Adams

>I have several Kestrel adzes--use them for everything from Windsor chair seats to carving to bowls/spoons--and they are first rate. Gregg Blomberg, the owner of Kestrel, tried to retire a year or so ago, but folks like me keep sending him orders and he keeps turning them out. FWIW, I also enjoy his crooked and not-so-crooked knives, too. Here's his web site if you're interested and he does respond to emails, but sometimes it takes a week or so.

http://www.rockisland.com/~kestrel/

Take care,

Kevin

Re: Adzes -- several thoughts *LINK*

Dave Mount

>Hello Stephen--

I'm not sure I have your answer (a cheap good adze), but I can offer some things to think about. I looked on Ebay to see what adzes you were referring to. From what I can see, the seller "adzes" is selling adzes with a very angular head. the blade is not curved in both dimensions; it is curved side to side, but when viewed from the side, the back of the blade is more or less straight, bent down at a fixed angle from the head. In my own (not so extensive) experience, you want a blade that will cut into a bowl when swung in an arc -- with this adze, I'd be concerned that the angled part of the head would interfere as the adze is swung, forcing the cutting edge to enter the wood at a steep angle, which you don't want to have to do. You want to be able to take thin chips by moving at a near tangent to the curvature of your bowl, not hack at it as with a hatchet.

The adzes listed by jakruss clearly have curvature along the "spine", and much less sweep, although the blade is narrow. I'm not crazy about the use of a screw to hold the handle in the adze, but who knows, maybe it works. I'm also not so sure about the cutting edge being heavily curved when viewed from the back of the blade. The sweep of the adze (curvature edge to edge) affects the shape of the chip you'll take, and how tight a curve you can chop into. However, the curvature in the other dimension (as when the adze is viewed with the back of the adze facing you) doesn't seem like as good an idea. I seems to me it would have the effect of severing the sides of the chip much later than the leading edge, and I'm not convinced that this would be good in practice. Some of his/her adzes look more like a cooper's adze, which are for shaping curvature that is primarily in one dimension (think of the inside of a barrel as opposed to a bowl). The one advertised as a "sculptors adze" looks closer to what I think you'd want for bowl work. On the other hand, I've never used an adze with this kind of geometry, so my opinion may not be worth much more than you're paying for it.

Drew Langsner is big into chopping bowls, and the adzes he prefers and sells look very different, with a straighter blade with the curvature concentrated near the cutting edge (see link below). I've not used this type of adze either, but having made and used my own adze, I think this design makes a lot of sense (i.e., it seems like it would address many of the shortcomings in my own adze). You'll also notice the lip of the adze does not have the degree of curvature (when viewed from the back) as the jakruss adzes. The Karlsson adzes are not cheap, so they may not fit your definition of a starter adze. The point is more about the geometry of it than that you should buy that particular adze (though I suspect you'd like it if you did buy it; buy the best and only cry once).

I put a picture of the adze I made below. I did not really intend this adze for making bowls, I had something more like shaping chair bottoms in mind. However, I did decide to try chopping a bowl with it, which gave me some insights into what would be better for this application. The two big things I would change are to increase the sweep (side to side curvature) of the blade, and to decrease the curvature along the back of the blade, in favor of a shape more like those in the adzes Country Workshops sells. The increased curvature would be to allow better access into tight curves; the "corners" of this bowl were too tight to chop directly into with my adze. The change in the curvature along the "spine" would be to keep the handle from interfering. With the geometry shown, when you want to chop in steeply at the lip of the bowl, the handle hits on the other lip of the bowl. This would be easly remedied by putting in less overall curvature and concentrating the curvature closer to the lip.

I couldn't find a pic of the adze that Pam recommended, but my memory of the NW native adze designs (which I think that one is) is that they also have a blade with a curve that tightens near the cutting edge.

If I had to choose between the two makers listing on eBay (adzes and jakruss), I think I would choose the jakruss "scupltors" adze. However, I would definitely talk with the seller about what happens if you buy an adze that doesn't work for you. Seems to me they should be willing to take it back if you cover the shipping. I would also invest some time into looking at different options. The sculptor's adze offered by Lee Valley has a promising blade geometry in my view, though I personally don't like the idea of having that axe face flying around while I'm using the curved end. Woodcraft has some curved adzes, though I'm not sure I think they have the kind of curve along the spine that would make them good for bowls.

Finally, why don't you get a book or DVD on chopping bowls and see what they have to say about adze geometry?

My $0.02 -- your mileage may vary. I've no affiliation (nor hands on experience) with adzes from any of the manufacturers I've mentioned.

Best,

Dave




Country Workshops adzes

Re: Adze

hunter

>I got one of the Auriou adzes for chopping a windsor seat and it worked well for me for the seat chopping. not the cheapest but not the most expensive.... took a sharp edge and made quick work of the seat!

http://www.thebestthings.com/newtools/adze.htm

You made that?

Greg B�tit Crown Point NY

>Very nice. I like the handle too.

greg

Re: I did, thanks

Dave Mount

>Hi Greg--

I did make it, thanks for the kind words. Pic below shows the starting material, some 1" x 1" O1 bar, along with the adze after the initial grinding and before final shaping of the blade. The eye is a little ragged, which is because I used a homemade drift with was itself a little ragged.

I made the handle based on the shape of a commercial handle on one of my smithing hammers. The "waist" on it is very comfortable and gives a secure grip.

I hope to make a couple more with different geometries this winter. A lot of heavy hammering when working stock that size without a power hammer.

Best,

Dave

Question

Denis Ch�nard, Orl�ans, Ont.

>It has to be quite a bit of work, hammering that bar into the final shape...

I took a one day seminar on blacksmithing this summer, so I can relate a little bit, and I was just wondering, what sequence did you use in making the adze? Did you make the hole before or after shaping the blade? And is it full thickness (compared to the originating bar)? If so that hole must have been a b**** to make with a drift...

Nice work!

DC

Re: Smithing process

Dave Mount

>Evening Denis--

The process I followed came from Ray Larsen's "Toolmaking for Woodworkers". This is a pretty good book, though I wish it had less on the very basics and more tool projects. Unfortunately, the book appears to have gone out of print -- the only copies showing on Amazon are used copies going for $244 USD and up! Could check libraries. . .

Anyway, you start with a 4" piece of the 1" x 1" bar, mark the half point, then drill two 3/8" holes on one side, centered on the long axis and positioned so that they just touch at the short centerline of one half. These holes makes shaping the eye much easier later -- I can't imagine what it would be like to just punch through an inch of O1 without a pilot hole.

The first smithing step is to fuller halfway through the bar at the midpoint, separating the piece into the head and blade sections. Then you work the blade out, creating the fan shape and tapering from about 1/2" where it meets the head down to something arond 3/16" to 1/4" at what will be the lip. You use a fuller to make most of the spread go sideways instead of elongating. The blade is left flat at this point.

Next is the eye, which you open up using the tapered eye drift (I made mine from a piece of car axle). Once it's mostly open, you drift it from both sides to create an hourglass profile (so the handle can be wedged). At this point you normalize it, then rough grind the profile and bevel. That's the stage it's at in the previous pic. The next forging step is to put the sweep and curvature in the blade. I had to re-align the eye to the blade a little too. If you have a swage block you use that to put the sweep in the blade. I didn't have one so I used a rawhide hammer and pounded it into a depression in a stump. Next time I'll make a temporary swage my putting a cove into a piece of oak. Finally, you harden and temper; on Larsen's advice I took this to the peacock towards blue color, which is theoretically around 59 Rockwell. A pounding tool like this needs a little more toughness than a plane blade or chisel.

It was a fun project.

Best,

Dave

Toolmaking for Woodworkers

Pam Niedermayer - Austin, TX

>Do a search on "Tool Making for Woodworkers" or Ray Larsen for cheaper paperback copies.

Pam

Re: Adze

Stokes

>Thank you all for your feedback.

Dave, beautiful work on the adze you made!

I am still weighing my options. I will report back when I decide.

Regards,

Stokes

Re: Toolmaking for Woodworkers

ThomD

>+1 on that book.

I have been very happy with tools from country workshops, they have a variety of adzes, if one suits your style go for it. They do offer just the bits for many of their tools.

Re: I did, thanks

Greg B�tit Crown Point NY

>Wonderful. I make templates of handles that suit my fancy; a woman is a woman, but a nice handle is a real piece of work (paraphrased from someone's praise of a good cigar). That one looks like a keeper.

Please do keep us posted on your variations as they progress. Thanks for the pix. Great stuff... another slippery slope, must resist...

greg

Re: Adze *LINK*

Pam Niedermayer - Austin, TX

>Of course, if you decide to spend piles of bucks on this adze, which may be worth it, you may want to take a look at chona, the Japanese version. Be sure and click through to the large version.

Pam


Chona at Iida