Will the next generation follow our path?

I think so

Neal in San Jose

>I taught a hand plane class at the local WW store last month. I had 5 students; three women and three under 35. One of the women was 20 and only one year out of high school. All took to hand planes with zest, and said that they would incorporate them into their WWing. The 20 year old and a 35 year old man both had to do hand tools because their living conditions didn't permit power tools (efficiency apartments).

Drive by gloat; the class went well enough that I've been invited back for November.

The EXACT same path....doubtful

Dave Anderson Chester, NH

>Hi Dennis, My take on this starts with the premise that many folks in their 20s through to mid 40s have other preoccupations that take up most of the their off work hours. Raising children and the attendent chauffering take up a lot of time. Then there's the work on the house, spending time with the significant other, other hobbies, and the lack of disposable income for tools caused by all of the preceeding items. As we reach those peak earning years we have more income that can be spent on wood and tools and often more time to use them. Let's face it, most woodworkers (not all though) start out going the power tool route and then some of us migrate over to the quitet side. This is a double whammy on the wallet unless you fortunate enough to be educated by someone about antique and used tools and search diligently for them.

I suspect that like many of us here, role models, mentors, schools and other forms of education were not as readily available when we started and the learning curve was long and steep. Kind of like the slippery slope in reverse. Even with electronic distractions, I think that the next generation will show either the same or a stronger level of interest in woodworking. Their path won't be exactly the same because conditions, opportunities, and resources have changed. They aren't better or worse off, they are just different and will find their own path. I think that there will always be an interest in working with our hands to escape our increasingly mechanized, electronic, and fast paced world.

But then again, that's just my opinion. ;-)

Re: Will the next generation follow our path?

Bob Hackett

>If my boys are any indication then the answer is a big YES.

While it`s been a big blow to me to be unable to continue using some of my handtools due to my injury it was a surprise to have my two sons ask if I would like to pass both my tools and knowledge on to them.

My older boy is getting the stone working and carpentry tools while my younger son wants to learn blacksmithing and mechanics(motorcycle and car).My daughter has also expressed an interest in woodturning.

Don`t know if this makes a difference but,my children were raised much the same as was.They have an eye for craftsmanship and know that feeding and nurturing your creativity is part of being a well rounded and happy, healthy person.

Mainely,Bob

Re: Will the next generation follow our path?

Frank D. in Montreal

>Hi Denis,

In the woodworking courses I've taken and given, most people were under 30, which I actually find surprising. I just don't see woodworking as an activity that attracts a lot of young people. As stated, it's a hobby that younger people often just don't have the time for, not to mention the disposable income and space. I only got into it seriously over 30, when we bought our own house.

I really don't think much has changed, at least not in any negative way. How many people practiced woodworking as a hobby a century ago here in Quebec? Almost nobody (they were too busy working, or it wasn't an activity that their social class practiced).

I'm also not too condescending about today's generation of kids. We were no better. How many kids when we were young really got off their arse and did some creative stuff? No more than today.

Re: not sure

Norman (Ottawa, Ont.)

>Sometimes I think the electronic age is doing a disservice to our youth. I'm referring to the ever-increasing software that is directed to them and the clever marketing that goes along with this.

In one sense, they are more exposed to others in different parts of the country, more forums, more chatting, more online knowledge, etc. But let's look at the social repurcussions of all this. This inevitably results in less and less direct social contact and less of the yearn to simply explore for oneself. We can Google almost anything these days and some might wrongly interpret this as understanding a subject. I'm afraid we're raising a generation of Internet experts. Why bother doing anything when someone else has already done it and we can Google it.. Ok, I'm being fecetious but there is truth to this phenomena in my personal experience with nephews and nieces in my own family.

The other issue with this massive electronic exposure, Internet, cell phones, text messaging, television,etc. is practically no available time to do traditional things like read, make things, experiment, discuss.

BTW, this is a growing epidemic amongst adults also. Sometimes it looks to me like all this has become a ball and chain, keeping us from performing traditional hobbies and pastimes.. Not enough time I hear all the time.

Regarding our youth, the early to teen years are whitled away in the electronic medium when this is the period in their life they need to explore, discuss, read, understand, create with their hands. It's going to become increasingly difficult to pry them away from these mediums to be able to take the uninterrupted time to explore and learn on their own.

The next phase is their early 20's and the part when they start families. I can tell you there is not going to be much woodworking occuring in this period through to the late 30's for lack of time and other priorities, things such as raising a family and developing a career.. So we're back to the average age of most woodworkers in these forums., 40 and above. Families are grown, careers have matured and peaked, more disposable money is available,etc.

Only with the current generation, namely ourselves, our formative years likely had no Internet , etc.. so we probably have taken the opportunity to be exposed to shop class and especially woodworking.

I just don't feel like we're going to raise a new generation of woodworkers like ourselves. The interest just isn't there, too many other distractions in a youth's life to be able to simply relax and work with their hands.

It's a shame, because their creativity will never be explored unless they happen to stumble upon a project and realize they like working with tools and hand tools.

I've talked to a few woodworkers in my age group and found that today in most cases their kids have absolutely no interest in woodworking. I'm not sure how many situations like this are out there, but this thread might be a good opportunity to find out if kids in woodowrking families take an interest in this hobby. The exposure to woodworking with parents involved might help?

My .02 cents,

Norman

Re: It will if I can help it.

McKay Sleight

>I have taught high school shop for 29 years now, and find that the students are actually better than before. The problem that I face is that with increased academic requirements, (remember that the dictionary states that "academic" is "of no practical value.) the students are unable to take the class as often as they would wish. Each year I put out a number of students that start their own businesses. Hand tools are taught, but because of the numbers in my classes, it is not stressed. I see woodworking increasing as an avocation.

Youth

Frank D. in Montreal

>Hi Norman,

I don't think today's kids are any worse than kids in our time. I've been a teacher for twelve years now, and believe me, there are a lot of kids doing all kinds of creative, inventive, and interesting activities. If I take myself and my childhood friends as an example, it seems we never did too much, OK we played basebal or street hockey, watched TV, and hung out, but that's about it. Neither my friends nor I were avid readers or did many creative activities, at least till I was a teenager. So what has really changed? Instead of sitting in front of the tube, kids are communicating. I think we tend to make a value judgement simply because kids have different ways of hanging out together.

My daughter just finished a music camp, Garage Band Camp, where the kids enrolled are put together in bands according to their musical interests. This camp runs all summer long, with hundreds of kids enrolled. Each group practices and does workshops for 3 weeks, then they go on tour for a week, playing for other kids in "regular" summer camps. Let me tell you, I've never seen so much talent and promise in one place. These kids are amazing, a lot of them, at 11 or 12 or 13 years old, are better musicians than I'll ever be (I've played in bands for 25 years). Nothing like that existed when I was young. All this to say that kids have opportunities to do stuff that they never had when I was young, and many of them take advantage of it. I could give many other examples.

As a teacher I also strongly disagree that children read less or are less literate than in our generation. I now teach at university, but when I taught in cegep (senior high), I was always amazed at how bright the kids are in general. Of course they don't know everything there is to know at that age (who does?), but the kids I hung around and went to school with were certainly no better or no more literate (most of us hardly read at all, other than what we were forced to).

If anything I think the Internet gives kids a greater possibility to learn stuff. Sure there's a lot of crap, but there's also a lot of good info. Kids develop judgement when they have to choose from different sources because they're not spoon-fed everything in a text book. Heck, I sure learned a ton about woodworking on the Internet, most of which I would never have learned at all had I started the hobby on my own before the Web existed.

I think kids deserve more credit than adults often give them. People often tend to think things are getting worse (crime is another good example) when in fact they are actually getting better.

Re: Will the next generation follow our path?

Kevin French, Antrim, NH

>I think there is now a base for a return to hand tools as a major part of WW'n. There are manufacturers putting out quality tools and these tools are geting into the mainsrtream. We have several if not many HT catalogs that support our needs. We haven't had those resorces until recently, (relatively speaking).

Every week it seems someone stands on the top of the slope to begin the ride. I don't see it stopping. As for all the high tech gadgets and today's technology, I think WW'n, especially with HTs, is going to be the break that people need.

wood will be more rare

Bill Tindall, E.TN

>There are many trends that are going to make the availability of the woods we have more rare. The invasion of foreign pests may make more woods commercially extinct, like the fate of chestnut. Ash and Butternut seem to be at risk with hemlock and dogwood under attack. The southern range of white pine is dying out. Who knows what is next.

Logging is taking smaller logs so that regrowth will take longer to replenish logged forests. Lower quality logs are being used for veneer which make these logs unavailable for lumber.

Export of foreign woods are increasingly restricted and hence they may become unavailable in lumber form. I would not count on being able to buy mahogany except for plantation grown lumber at some not too distant time.

Would you be interested in woodworking if all you could afford to buy, or could find to buy, was yellow pine, oak and poplar?

If I was 30 I would be buying my lifetime supply of lumber even if it means buying fewer tools.

Re: Will the next generation follow our path?

Jack Guzman from Maine

>I think we need to do all we can to pass on this madness we suffer from to future generations. I give tours of my shop to all young people whose attention I can grab. I also do dovetailing demos at the local museum. I don't think there is anything etched in stone for the future. If more of us pass on what we know the future will have lots of surprises.---Jack

very nicely said, Dave.

VTAndy4

>

I think of gardening and other simple living

Bill Houghton, Sebastopol, CA

>In my lifetime (59 years), there have been about three revivals of the back to the land movement: post-WWII (though I was too young to pay much attention, focused as I was on learning to use the potty and other simple tasks), the 60's (this one I noticed and even participated in), and a more recent one that doesn't seem to have taken off quite the same, but is nevertheless in the air.

I know some young hand tool-interested woodworkers (including my son, who just did his first hand-dovetailed box and is experimenting with carving), but for the most part they're not visiting fora like this one, but getting their learning other ways.

Myself, I think right up to the time entropy wins and the planet stops producing woody plants, there will be cyclical returns of the idea of making things from wood using simple sharp edges and grunt rather than electrons.

Re: wood will be more rare

Gary Karner

>I could be quite happy working with QS whiteoak, matter of fact it's my wood of choice now. I do like the exotics but could do with using them for trim and accent much more than I do now.

Having said that it must have been nice when the huge Cuban Mahogany trees were so easy to come by.

Ace

Hard to say

Michael Recchione

>I feel bad saying this after all the positive energy and optimism, but if my sons and their classmates are any indication, I don't think so. For a while it looked good. I'll always cherish the memory of New Years Day a number of years ago, when my two sons and I spent the entire day in the shop. I gave the younger one (he was maybe 5 at the time) a "magic wand" to sand and then set him up to paint it. The older one and I made a "robot" of his own design out of scraps, and I taught him to use a handsaw, chisels and planes, as well as to use the try-square and rule. The older one said "Daddy, this was the best day of my life".

It saddens me to say it, but we never were able to repeat the experience. We did try to go back to the shop a couple of times, but the magic was gone. They went along with it for a while, and then started to find excuses not to come to the shop. Now the older one says "I hate woodworking. I hate tools." The younger one will still help me do stuff, mostly just to be doing stuff with me, but it's pretty clear he's not into it.

That's not to say they don't do creative things. Just not the things I do. The older one in particular needs to have his own space and his own things. He writes stories and "screenplays" and has started making movies. They're both learning to play piano and the younger one wants to start violin this year. But what both of them love best is computer games. And between computer games and sports, that about sums up what all the boys in their school are obsessed with.

One thing I've noticed, at least around here, is that kids have no sense of history at all. They don't really learn it in school - becuse of "No Child Left Behind", all subjects except the 3Rs get short shrift in elementary school. Childrens literature and pop-culture is not historical.

My kids want to read about sorcerers and magic in some mythical past or in the present or future, not about real people in the past and how they did things. Maybe that will change - the seeds have been planted. With luck, they'll take root. Otherwise, I have a whole bunch of stuff that's going to wind up in a big garage sale once I shuffle off this mortal coil.

They'll be back

Wiley Horne--So. Calif.

>Michael,

All you can do is give them the knowledge and skills. You've done that. Now they have to find their way. They have to go through some phases--join the culture at school, and so forth. You'll go nuts at some of the stuff they pick up at school, and if you don't consider yourself very lucky or a great dad. School's their real world right now, where they have to fit in and compete. You may have to track their algebra, make sure they're getting it, and do some tutoring on the side, stuff like that. That was my experience.

But they will remember their lessons. And they'll tell you someday, once those lessons begin to have some meaning in their lives. May not happen til they're late-20's or thirty, though. All the skills they learn will have meaning at some point in their lives, and then they will tell you.

Wiley

Re: not sure

Moses Yoder

>Knowledge will increase dramatically because of the electronic age, and more than just a little bit. How long has the internet been widespread? Not very long. It puts all the work that people do out where other people can build on it. This is not just for scientists, but for every pig farmer, mechanic, and carpenter out there. Our library here in the middle of Nowhere, MI is absolutely pathetic. But this is a whole different subject and books can be written about it. Suffice it to say that the internet is the absolute worst and best thing currently in the world.

So far as woodworking goes, woodworking and especially hand tools are fascinating. It's engrossing, challenging, rewarding, inspiring and fun. Of course the next generation will take it up. With gusto. Take the time to show them what you are doing.

Re: Will the next generation follow our path?

Adam Cherubini, NJ

>Will the next generation follow our path? Vis a vis using hand tools? I think so.

Hand tools are available today in the variety and quality that allows woodworkers to simply buy the tools they need. I think that's a big factor and you all are responsible for that. You've created that market when you bought that LV plane or Wenzloff saw.

I think woodworkers will begin to skew younger because they no longer need 2000 sq ft and $20,000 in tools to get started.

BUT- I think we shouldn't expect them to share our values. They'll offend our sensibilities by painting their walnut, gluing rocks to wood, etc. And the power tool side will be dominated by discussions about the new low cost CNC routers, while people on this side of WC ask ponder whether that's actual woodwork or not.

So, yeah, I think they'll walk through the door we opened for them, but don't expect them to stay on the path we cut through the forest or appreciate our efforts, or contribution.

Adam

Re: I Agree

Steve in Bethlehem, Pa.

>My Father was never a woodworker, but he did do all of the remodeling to our home. As a mechanical draftsman, he was pretty creative, and made alot of particle board tables and and shelf units. He used to ask me to "hold the other end" of whatever he was making, which I ALWAYS did under protest because it took me away from the Atari 2600. But he planted that creative seed and even as a teenager, if I needed a place to put something, I built a shelf unit, TV stand, coffee table, or whatever. When I got my own place, I started collecting tools and made more furniture. I think Wiley's right. It may take the next generation more time than it took me, but they'll be back.

Steve

a strong motivator will still be in play

Bill Tindall, E.TN

>Stuff made from wood is useful and people want it. The serious woodworkers I know, and that includes the likes of Fred Stanley, got into woodworking to make stuff they wanted and couldn't afford to buy, or saw no need to buy. As was discussed a few weeks ago, and again in this post, a number of factors has made learning to make stuff easier than in the past. So baring the other side winning and sending us into a repeat of the dark ages, the interest and ability to make furniture will increase.

As far as our children following our path, don't expect it. But some kid on the block will. When I helped teach a youth class at the national wood turners meeting I was pleased to see that some of the students were not children of a member attending, but a kid from down the block. The sad cases were the parents pushing their kid to do what the parent decided was best/important.

I NEED HELP!

Patrick Gibbons, Bayou City, TX

>I've volunteered to "show and tell" for my 1st grader's class. I want to present on hand tools, exactly because of this subject. Any ideas on what would keep a class of 6 year olds iterested for 15 to 20 minutes? I would like them to come away with the idea that they don't need a lot of space, tools or supervision to build stuff. I have a few months to put this together.

Bill, you're right

Patrick Gibbons, Space City, TX

>My own kids have shown only a modest interest in working wood. Maybe they'll catch the bug, maybe not. But I refuse to push them into it. In the end that will never work.

build something

Bill Tindall, E.TN

>Make something useful before their eyes. A valuables box and give it away would be grand. Or the ever popular bluebird house. The turners have the advantage here. They can make a pen or rolling pin, etc.

Re: They'll be back

Michael Recchione

>The thing is, for me (and possibly for many of us), woodworking with hand tools is a way to recapture something that was part of my youth. My grandfather and uncle were trained as cabinetmakers in Italy, and they were a big part of my life as I was growing up. My original interest in neanderthal woodworking came as a result of trying to restore my grandfather's tools (that I had inherited) after they were damaged by a flood in my basement. Then I inherited my uncle's tools. It made (and still) makes me feel closer to these men who had so much to do with shaping me.

My kids' grandfathers were both engineers (like me). We, like many American nuclear families, live hundreds of miles from our extended families. My kids never knew one of their grandfathers, and have only the most infrequent contact with the other. Their reality is different - this is just another one of daddy's weird obsessions.

But you never know. I have the tools. They're welcome to use them and will inherit them one day. What they do with them is their business.

My take on this

Denis Ch�nard, Orl�ans, Ont.

>I don't see the next generation embracing woodworking like we do. I'm not saying that WW will disappear completely, but I believe that the number of woodworkers in that generation will go down substantially. Here's my thinking on this:

The young generation has largely been raised in cities, whereas our generation has been raised in the countryside proportionally more. Living in the country required more self-sufficiency, and a corollary of this is that more people were trained to work with their hands, out of necessity. That doesn't mean that peoplee raised in the city can't become proficient at woodworking, but for the most part they haven't been raised with the "handy" mindset, and as such are at a disadvantage.

I compare myself, born and raised on a dairy farm, to my three boys, pampered in the city with all the luxuries they enjoy, access to everything they want, and I can't see them developing the skills and mindset of hand work. I've tried to get them interested, brought them to HD to participate in the monthly "bring your kids and build something with them" events, bought a few books of projects to build with them, and frankly they're not very interested. I keep trying to get them interested without pushing them (and put them off), but the outlook doesn't look very good so far.

Another point, and we can't blame the kids for that one, is that in general their activities are planned by the parents/teachers/whatever, and as such they don't develop the initiative to do stuff by themselves ("there's nothing to do"). When I was a child/teenager, as long as I showed up for meals and bedtime, my parents usually did not know where I was or what I was doing, and were not concerned about that. Yet I kept myself busy.

Add the disappearance of manual training in schools, and the prognosis doesn't look good in my view...

One comment from Michael struck a chord with me, the desire to recapture something from his youth. I wonder how many of us feel that way one way or another... One thing is for sure, the next generation won't have woodworking to recapture when they get older...

I sincerely hope I'm wrong with all this, but if the next generation is to get into woodworking, they won't learn it the way we did...

I wish I could be more positive...

DC