Drilling End Grain question

Steel bits

Jim in Burlington On

>I use my Silver and Demming bit's. I usually drill a block of wood on the drill press to use as a guide block.

Re: Drilling End Grain question

Marv

>Hi Bill,

If the end grain is coarse you should use a piece of metal that has been drilled to act as a drill jig. If the end grain is tight and fine, you might not need a drill jig, but it's always best if you can use one. Use a regular drill that you would normally use for drilling metal. It will drill the straightest. If you have a really long hole to drill, you can buy drills with extended shanks at your local Home Depot. Hopefully you are doing the drilling in a drill press. If so, clamp the workpiece to the table, drill as deep as you can then you can switch to a handheld drill if need be. Keep the drill cleared as you drill to prevent over heating.

Sounds like fun,

Marv

Down cutting Nose auger

Stephen Shepherd in the State of Deseret

>Use a gouge bit with a nose cutter, works great on end grain. You don't get the center cone of a quill, gouge or spoon bit.

These bits drill true holes for dowels or pegs and do not follow the grain.

Need to make a starting holes for these bits as they walk.

Stephen

Drilling End Grain Answer

Derek Cohen (in Perth, Australia)

>Bill

I use a Stanley #59 dowel jig to guide the drill bit. This has the advantage of allowing you to swap out guides for different thickness bits and maintain the same line. I'd begin with a thinner bit and then widen/deepen the hole progressively.

Regards from Perth

Derek

that worked

Bill Tindall, E.TN

>Indeed the metal drill did well in end grain and the holes were straight as they needed to be in this critical drilling. I drilled the holes with the bed assembled so the legs provided the drill guide. Now I am chopping out the holes for the bolts. Jeff Headley provided a good hint. I inserted a 3/8 dowel before chopping so the hole didn't fray as the chisel went through it.

Nose augers work best toward the end of a bad cold

Marv

>

bed question

Adam Cherubini

>Did you have a tenon? Or was it just a bolted butt joint? What kind of joint quality did you end up with, structurally speaking?

Did you have one bolt crossing through a tenon and into another's end grain?

I just did this exact same job (only one bolt per joint) and I wasn't all that impressed with the stiffness of the joint. I did several tests with the bed bolt hardware. I'm thinking maybe on a rope bed, you get some stiffness from the rope and maybe the tester.

I was making a collapsible work bench so stiffness was a big issue for me. I guess its less of an issue for a bed, but I just like stuff that's not rickety. All my test pieces were fairly rickety.

What kind of wood did you use?

Adam

Re: bed question-answers

Bill Tindall, E.TN

>Did you have a tenon? M&T with shoulder, which is critical to stiffness

Did you have one bolt crossing through a tenon and into another's end grain? no

I just did this exact same job (only one bolt per joint) and I wasn't all that impressed with the stiffness of the joint. I have made several beds with this joint including a loft bed with nearly 5' long legs. Also bunk beds and they too were rigid It was completely rigid. When the M&T shoulder is drawn up to the leg it can't move, any.

What kind of wood did you use? cherry

Re: bed question

Moses Yoder in White Pigeon, MI

>I built a collapsible workbench out of treated pine construction lumber using bolts at the joints. I used a small tenon, just for locating the piece and holding it in place while I inserted the bolts, I think a 1/2" x 2" or so tenon. The shoulders on this type of joint is what really provides the strength because there is no glue on the tenon. I used 1/2" bolts. The first time I set this bench up was out in Pennsylvania in the sun, nice tight joints in the morning and by noon the lumber had dried out enough that the joints were loose. This is a very sturdy little bench with a 3" x 18" or so elm plank for a work surface.

I've done one too....

John in New Mexico

>And I'm not sure what you mean by:

"Did you have one bolt crossing through a tenon and into another's end grain?"

I did do something like what that sounds like, with a nut captured in the rail, but thats how it has to work, so I'm confused by your wording. Wish I could have found some nice old square nuts to use, as they'd be a lot easier to let in. The other thing I did was to use a 1" flat bottomed hole for the bolt head and press a fender washer in so the head wouldn't crush the wood. Works great, nice and tight.

John

Re: bed question

Patrick Gibbons, Houston, TX

>When I made beds I had bed bolts going through a mortise in the head boards and into a tenon in the rail. The tenon's fit is not critical. It's main purpose is to provide support at the shoulder and put weight on the wood and not on the bolt. My beds are rock solid. They do not move. I can't give credit for this solely to the bed bolt joints. The slats for mattress support are screwed down to a ledger on the rails. I cut slits on both sides of the slats and used 1/4-20 screws with tee nuts. This allows movement of the wood while also speeding up the fitting of the slats. I did this originally because I anticipated my sons would be kicking the slats of the bed above them and didn't want them to be able to move. The increased rigidity was just a bonus.

Re: I've done one too....

patrick Gibbons

>Adam, I think I know what you mean. My head rails were M&T'ed together and the bed bolt went through the tenons of those assemblies. I have to agree with everyone else who's chimed in here. The shoulder makes all the difference in the world. I used the same setup on my bench with Veritas bench bolts. Once again, the shoulders on the tenons provide the rigidity.

Make your own square nuts...

Marv

>Hi John,

Sometimes it's handy to think metalworking when doing something like what you just described where you wanted an old square nut. If you ever require a need of that kind again, get a piece of flat steel bar stock the size you need about a 1/4" thick, drill and tap some threads in it and you have yourself a square nut.

Marv

Only if I had a 1/4" shear!

John in New Mexico

>and a Roper Whitney punch for the holes.

Other than that I can deal with hex nuts and just grumble about it!

John

That sure is pretty!

Scott Burr in Ben Lomond, CA

>

thank you

Bill Tindall, E.TN

>

Re: bed question-answers

Paul in NJ

>Wow, that is a nice job. Is it your design or did you base it on an antique bed?

Paul Dzioba

Re: bed question-answers

Bill Tindall, E.TN

>I was told it was a Virginia bed. I am way not smart enough to design something this elegant. I do make good sheep gates though.

Ace hardware?

Bill Houghton, Sebastopol, CA

>My local Ace hardware has an aisle of those little paper bins on pull-out shelves, with some square nuts in one of the bins, if I recall correctly. You might see if you've got a similar arrangement in a local Ace. Home Despot's got a decent small hardware aisle, too, though of course it means being assimilated in orange.

1/4" shear

Bill Houghton, Sebastopol, CA

>Mine is called a hacksaw - not quick, but, with the right blade, not slow either. I find that hardware stores aren't carrying the range of hacksaw blades they used to - you would want as coarse a tooth as you could get, at least 18 tpi; hold the stock horizontally in a bench vise, and cut away.

Geez.... just googled square nut

John in New Mexico

>lots of vendors out there, guess I didn't look too hard last time.

John

Re: Drilling End Grain question

Ernie Miller

>can you weld? make a spoon bit get some un hardened drille rod of the size hole you need drill a hole about 3/16 or 5/32 smaller than the outside diameter of the rod stay as close to center as possable. stop befor going all the way thru about 2 inches deep is usualy enough. cut the rod in half with a hack saw length ways now all you need to do is sharpen the point with your grinder weld it to a smaller peice of drill rod making it the length of a bit you need. grind the weld so no slag sticks out wider than you bit. harden the tip. sharpen and use. Simpleas that. Spoon bits are hard to find so making you own is about the only option. you will have to clean out regulary but they work good on end grain.

simpler solution

Bill Tindall, E.TN

>The long 3/8" metal drill was dead on 6" into the bed rail. I had some notion that metal drills didn't work well but that is apparently not correct given the success in 4 long holes.

I cleverly located the bolt end. I put a small disk magnet on the rail and it aligned perfect with the location of the drill. Went in with a small Forstner to be sure the bolt hole was beneath (it was) and then chiseled out the mortise for the nut. Bed is up and ready for its skirt and accessories that the seamstress in the family will provide.

Re: Drilling End Grain question

Stephen Shepherd in the State of Deseret

>can you grind? You might try to make a quill bit. Take a piece of drill bit stock, good steel and grind a point on the end. Then grind off half of the cylinder of the drill bit stock back and inch or two. Make sure it is half of the diameter that you remove and that it is flat, making the edges sharp. Works when used in both direction so it works in a bow drill, but will work on continuous circular motion, in either direction. The bit does clog up and needs to be removed regularly to remove the dross.

Stephen