***SURVEY: THE IDES OF JULY*** *LINK*

Re: ***SURVEY: THE IDES OF JULY***

David Miller from Iowa

>For me, it depends upon the reason I'm doing it. If I am doing an "involuntary" project (e.g., building a stairway in my new house) it is power tools all the way.

When I do woodworking for therapy, like building a piece of furniture, I try to go all hand tools. Sometimes I will cheat a little bit and use the power planer or rip an 8' length of hardwood on the table saw, but only occasionally.

In a soundbyte - if the end product is the goal I use power tools, if therapy is the goal I use hand tools.

Re: ***SURVEY: THE IDES OF JULY***

Philip Duffy

>I would think one of the important "drivers" in flat work is the "look" desired at the end. For instance, a table top that has been sanded to a 400 grit finish would look quite different than one that is hand planed. OTOH, those of us who turn can only get the ruff affect by putting in a ding or two as we go along, and not one of us has ever done that! Philip

Re: ***SURVEY: THE IDES OF JULY***

wilbur

>I've found that for me, the time saved using a machine to make a cut is lost by the amount of time it takes to set up a machine to make that cut. In addition, the cuts I make coming off of a hand saw are as clean or cleaner than the cuts coming off of my machines.

I'm sure there's some point where making repeat cuts would give a machine the advantage, but I haven't hit that point yet.

I do use a powered jointer and planer for the first steps in milling stock, and a drill press for drilling holes, and a bandsaw for cuts through thick stock or very long cuts. Most other things I use hand tools for.

Re: ***SURVEY: THE IDES OF JULY***

Marv

>There was a time when mankind didn't have hand tools that could convert a tree into boards and boards into beautiful furniture and other items. We see pictures of old chairs and tables and beds in log cabins made from tree limbs that were strapped together with some kind of stapping, leather, vines, etc. I guess the axe was one of the first tools devised to reduce a large part of a tree into smaller pieces. Some of the very early handsaws were made from bronze. We think we are quite clever when we use hand tools to make a box or a drawer, etc. Don't get me wrong, it is an accomplishment to be admired, but lets give most of the credit to those who recognized the need for a specific tool and actually made that tool for the very first time. The true owner of that tool is the person who invented it. As technology progressed, the same process took place. Someone recognized a need and then set about either devising a new way to fill that need or improved on something that was already filling the need.

The question is, why use only hands tools versus power tools? We all project a certain image of ourselves. A person who chooses to build a piece of furniture using only old hand tools is merely projecting an image of his/her choice, making a statement, if you will. And so it is with those who choose to build that piece of furniture using power tools or a combination of both hand tools and power tools. In all cases they are making a statement about themselves that they want others to recognize. Most of us like the feeling of that "WOW" factor when someone compliments us on our skills and craftsmanship. It's sorta like the comedian getting a good laugh from his audience. If he didn't get it, he probably wouldn't do it. This might not be the best annalogy because some of us can manage to do great work strictly for our own satisfaction. That is rare though. Lets face it, most of use like to show off and brag and then apologize for bragging. Well, some of us apologize. I for one don't apologize, bragging has become an art form for me.

So that's my opinion as to why some people use only hand tools while others prefer power tools or a combination of both. We are making a personal statement regarding our skills and knowledge.

Marv

What a personal question!

David Barnett - SW Florida

>I respect and love my handtools. I respect and fear my powertools.

Part of it's about pace. Part's getting things done.

My health and age enters into it, too. I find setting up machines more visually challenging than I used to, before my arms grew shorter. I no longer (nor did I ever truly enjoy) ripping with a handsaw. I don't mind jointing and I rather enjoy most planing, although scrubbing's pretty much out of the picture energy-wise and cardiac-wise. I'd usually rather use a hand plough or dado plane than set up the tablesaw or router, and I prefer hand-stuck mouldings to their rotary effigies, but these vestiges have less meaning to me as I migrate to more minimalist tastes.

As for historical authenticity, I personally find it amusing if not fetishistic 'wood theatre' or exhibitionist cosplay, and I'd largely include tool-worshipping Japonisme in this melange, too, although I can appreciate high-quality toolmaking as much as the next Neanderthal. To each his own.

I certainly don't give a gnat's fundament whether a tool's particularly old or possesses an interesting provenance, and whether or not Bowery Boy Josiah King really lost one or both baubles in 'the accident'. I'll leave that to the collectors and will equip myself with so-called 'user' versions of such tools whenever available.

And what's the deal with electrons? Lights, computers, Luddites. Boring. To me, it's not how a tool is powered so much as the artful use of that tool. There's plenty more 'workmanship of risk' in freehanding a rotary grinder (Foredom, Dremel, etc.), than sawing mitre in a box with a backsaw.

But it all boils down to what you like to do. Who you are. Your goals, your skills, your time, the bills.

Why do I do any of it? Fun? Attention? Meditation? Money? Love of problem solving and design? Exercise? Quality time with the kids? Need furniture? Just love wood? Just love tools?

Are handtools really safer? Well, yeah. Pretty much. It takes real determination to plane off that thumb. Dust can still be a problem, but rarely as much. One should still be mindful of noise levels. Sharp tools always demand attentiveness.

As for handtools conveying some sort of purity in the work ethic or quality in the final product, it's a load of hooey.

Mediocrity comes in every flavor, venue, and price point. Historical authenticity's never an excuse for poor taste, bad design or shoddy execution, and certainly it's no excuse for arrogant pricing. I've seen this in goldsmithing and jewelry, where poor metal surfaces and questionable construction yield higher renumeration than similar but better made machined articles.

Of course, you DID phrase the question as 'power vs. hand', so opposition is implied. I think it's perhaps more productive to think in terms of complementaries. Having both powertools and handtools increases my options. I can prototype with handtools, design and ad-lib on the fly, then if I need or want to, I can incorporate powertools and jigging to augment economies of production. On the other hand, I can make something in a straightforward manner using mostly powertools and finish and personize it with handtools. Or I can simply choose handtools because it's 3am and the neighbors leave their windows open.

Is there a formula? Probably, but a calculus of craftsmanship eludes me unless I base it on efficiencies, and it's hard to factor in what I feel like 'in the moment'.

And... I just remembered... most of those old handtools were made using powertools in factories, anyway. Okay, I'm confused again.

Re: ***SURVEY: THE IDES OF JULY***

Stuart Hough

>What David said....and a bit more. I am still fairly new to woodworking. Most of the things I have built previously fall under the heading of carpentry. Having said that, when I decided to embark on the "journey" that learning to work wood becomes, I did it whole- heartedly. I started gathering a basic set of tools, both powered and non, well before I learned how to use them because I listened to a grizzled old man who said "get tools first, then learn to use them, then, and only then, introduce them to the wood, because you don't want to insult it".

That puts me squarely in the gray area in the middle. I can use power tools like a champ, thanks to a father that gave me a sense of mechanicalness ( to coin a word), but I try to do the same things with hand tools so I can see for myself how they were done, because of the "history" of it all.

I guess that makes me (here I go again coining words!) a Ludd-ithal. Or a Neanderite?

Re: ***SURVEY: THE IDES OF JULY***

Todd O. Cronkhite Maine Native, Presently Away

>I think David pretty well nailed it for me, tho I myself don't do any woodworking for "therapy" or relaxation or any other form of mental rest, I do it for enjoyment purposes. I enjoy being creative mostly, and wood is my mediumn of choice, tho I can be just as happy with others such as metal, glass, clay, cloth, etc, etc, etc. For me it mostly about being creative, making some item that I either want or need just because I can, and perfer to do it from salvaged materials whenever possible.

As for the matter of how do I choose which to use, power or hand tools for any given task it's mostly what David said, if I'm doing it unvoluntarily and just want to get it 'er done and out of the way than I'll use power tools, but for my own enjoyment I'll use handtools. Time is also a major consideration factor, but since I don't WW for money than Time is usually of no consideration.

To me using a machine makes you more of a machine operator than a wood crafter, tho I will agree that using machines does require some skill and knowledge, but IMO that skill and knowledge is mostly put towards knowing how not to get hurt by the machine.

Now, with all that said, just today I did fire up the tablesaw to rip down 16 pieces of plywood, and 16 short lengths of 2x6 to modify 8 drawers. This took me a whole 10 minutes at the most to cut all 32 pieces, which of coarse would of taken me that long to cut just a few of the pieces. I used the T/S because I saw this as a nuscience job and just wanted to get 'er done so I can push on to bigger and better things.

T.O.

Re: ***SURVEY: THE IDES OF JULY***

Michael Recchione

>For me it's simple - I use what I have. I decided early on that I didn't want to deal with noise, dust collection, three-phase power, upgrading my electric service, etc. - and also that working with very powerful, potentially finger-eating machines would take some of the fun and relaxation out of woodworking. The only stationary power tools I have are a benchtop drillpress that I rarely use for woodworking (it's mostly for metalworking), and a midi lathe that I use a lot. I've also got sharpening stuff that runs by electricity. For years, my shop has shared a single 15 Amp circuit with lights and a computer without ever popping a breaker or straining my old wiring.

I've got a few hand-held power tools - a drill, a sabre saw, a couple of sanders... I use the drill and the sabre-saw for home-improvement kind of stuff, mostly. I do use a finishing sander on "woodworking" projects from time to time, but because I don't have a dust-collection system, I only do this outdoors. So I try to minimize what I have to sand.

I do everything else, including all stock prep using hand tools. I actually enjoy preparing stock by hand - It's great exercise and is very relaxing.

Depends on a lot of things.

Kokomo Ron

>Aside from my chair making which I do all by hand, I make the decision based on what is best for the project and makes the most sense. For example, It does not make sense for me to dimension stock by hand. Way too much time involved and the work does not "add" to the project. Cutting dovetails by hand and final surface planing ( for example) do add to the project. I raise panels by hand because I have a nifty door set of planes by Todd Herrli that make the work very enjoyable. I make some moldings by hand because that is the only way to do them.

Another personal factor is that my power tools are mostly in storage, so I have become more dependent on hand tools.

well said

Kokomo Ron

>I suppose.. if you really want to go basic.... and if a person was willing to make the commitment..... one could make a heck of a lot of furniture with a knife and perhaps some form of mallet to help force the cutting edge through stock... because lets face it..... most power tools are some adaptation of a "knife"

After that it depends on time, budget, enjoyment of task.. personal preference, and why one is doing the work. If one is making a set of kitchen cabinets on commission.. the knife and mallet process may cause client relations issues :)

Re: What a personal question!

Larry Williams

>In closing David says, "And... I just remembered... most of those old handtools were made using powertools in factories, anyway. Okay, I'm confused again."

Well actually, the "handtools made by powertools" statement is most relevant to Ellis' question. The economics of machines tend to control and limit a design. While machines shine at repetitive work, that work has to match the capabilities of the machine and/or commercially available tooling. By machine, one often ends up designing around their tooling. Aesthetics and function are, by necessity, often secondary to machine considerations.

I suspect most people who've built projects from the plans of others often make changes simply because they're not tooled up the same as the original designer. I often see this kind of impact in completed projects shown on Internet woodworking forums. Many of those projects look strikingly similar to kitchen cabinets. This isn't surprising given the fact that most of the tooling for machines was designed for cabinet shops.

When the economics of repetitive work take over a lot is lost. Here's a good example of the compromises made to "production work":

Here are three commercially made planes. Two, made after 1850, are made around the economics of repetitive work. The other plane was made more than 100 years earlier than the other two. In fact, it was made by Robert Wooding who's accepted as the first full-time Anglo-American professional plane maker. Being the first ought to make things primitive and unrefined, right? I have a difficult time calling the two later planes refined in this comparison. The cost of the economics of repetitive production work, in this case, goes far beyond aesthetics. The compromises affect the function and ergonomics of the two newer planes as much as it does the aesthetics.

The Hard Way

Darrell in Oakville

>Hand tools vs power tools?

Me, I *like* using hand tools. It's challenging and it's fun. As a hobbyist I work wood for fun, so hand tools do most of the work in my shop. Do I ever use power tools? Yes, the bandsaw and thickness planer are the two that get the most use, usually due to time constraints. I might use my wife's tablesaw once a year or so, for sheet goods or something like that. I think I last time used the power router was in 2000. Made the first of 4 cuts with it, pushed the machine aside and finished the rest with a chisel & plane.

I'm often surprised and disappointed by my fellow woodworkers when I see posts on forums asking "what's the easiest way to ...". Why does it always have to be the "easy" way? What is wrong with doing something the Fun Way, or the Interesting Way, or the Challenging Way, or heaven help us, The Hard Way?

I guess that's what leads me to use hand tools more than power tools. It challenges me to learn new skills, and I find that to be fun, interesting, and rewarding.

Darrell

Wood Hoarder, Blade Sharpener, and Occasional Tool User

"No generalization is worth a damn, including this one" - Oliver Wendall Holmes

If ....

Andrew F in Australia

>Hi Ellis,

I normally don't respond to these.

However, if it's quicker to take a handtool and do the job than to set up a machine, I'll grab a handtool and do it - eg: I'll cut a single mortise by hand, but not two. I'll run about 6-10 feet of chamfer by hand, any more and I'll set up a bit in the inverted router.

Time is the criteria I use.

Cheers,

Andrew

Re: ***SURVEY: THE IDES OF JULY***

Tony Zaffuto

>As I am a hobbyiset, I determine the manual vs. power question in terms of "enjoyment" and "skill"! As a point of reference I started the journey into majority handtool use about five years ago.

For some reason, I love all types of hand saws and tend to do as much as I can by hand. Net result, with a shooting board, or a plane w/jointer fence, I can end up with resulting boards better than done with power. But, when doing a project with much ripping, then it's time for the table saw.

I have the same feelings towards planes, but have not yet attained the skill level to only utilize hand planes, so I usually buy stock the S4S and clean up after sawing. Regardless, I don't see me taking the time to go completely from rough to finish, even though I have a scrub. Once in a while, on a single piece, I do.

Mortises and dovetails are now exclusively by hand: not for speed but for skill building. As a hobbyist I don't do enough to really become competent, so last winter I untertook the Chris Swartz method of one dovetail a day for a month, using Ian Kirby's methods. Net effect is that my joints now look very decent. Regardless, when I do a project, I still need to cut a joint or two as a refresher.

Re: ***SURVEY: THE IDES OF JULY***------WebKitForm

wilbur

>I've found that for me, the time saved using a machine to make a cut is lost by the amount of time it takes to set up a machine to make that cut. In addition, the cuts I make coming off of a hand saw are as clean or cleaner than the cuts coming off of my machines.

I'm sure there's some point where making repeat cuts would give a machine the advantage, but I haven't hit that point yet.

I do use a powered jointer and planer for the first steps in milling stock, and a drill press for drilling holes, and a bandsaw for cuts through thick stock or very long cuts. Most other things I use hand tools for.

Re: ***SURVEY: THE IDES OF JULY***

"RJ" Whelan

>For me, it's simple: I have to make a living at this so it comes down to what produces the desired end product in the smallest amount of time.

When it comes to planing I start with a power planer to reduce the stock to within a 32nd (or so) of final dimension and then finish with a hand plane or scraper to produce the desire surface.

With dovetail I don't like the look of machine cut joints, so they're all done by hand. I've tried Leigh, Keller and Porter Cable jigs - they all work wonderfully, but I just don't care for the look.

Mortises - hollow chisel followed up with paring chisel(s) - or - slot mortiser followed up with a mortise chisel to square the ends. The precision of these tools make them a clear winner in my shop.

Tenons - table saw followed up with a shoulder plane. Again, speed and accuracy are the yardstick used to make my choice.

Rip and crosscuts are done on the tablesaw.

Jointing is done on a jointer followed with a #7.

I spent many years learning hand tools skills and I don't want to lose them. For this reason I will generally build something predominantly by hand a couple of times each year. This gives me a chance to "brush up" on the hand skills and, just as important, a chance to relax a bit after an especially long or demanding job. I just finished a large, built-in cabinet that require just under six months to complete and I am currently building a storage bench almost completely with hand tools only (save for rough dimensioning the stock).

For those who prefer working completely by hand I say - bravo. For me, though, I can't build fast enough to make a living that way ... rj