Jointer length scraper plane on the cheap

Re: The ultimate in back bevels

Dave Mount

>Now how are we going to argue about BU v BD? So simple it hurts -- can't wait to try it.

Did you try it with the bevel up but before adding the 45 degree bevel? What happens at a cutting angle of 75 degrees?

Best,

Dave

Re: The ultimate in back bevels *LINK*

Derek Cohen (in Perth, Australia)

>Did you try it with the bevel up but before adding the 45 degree bevel? What happens at a cutting angle of 75 degrees?

Hi Dave

I did that in my review of the LV "Little Victor" block plane (link below). I would not consider 75 degrees to be a scraper plane but a (very!) high angle smoother. I am not sure if there is a defined cut off point, but for myself I consider a scraper begins at 90 degrees.

BU or BD? You can choise (actually I would say that this is a BU configuration as the back of the iron is flat).

Regards from Perth

Derek


The LV "Little Victor" Review

A timely and perfect post! Kudos to you!

woodburnbob

>

darn you

dave brown

>Darn you derek! There you go again -- using your head when all we wanna do is spend some dough! lol

Re: BU

Dave Mount

>Hi Derek --

Now that you mention the Little Victor review, I do remember that part of it -- pardon my weakening memory.

Re: BU, of course it is BU -- I was trying (apparently not succeeding) in being funny, because of the irony in turning a (traditionally) BD plane into a BU plane.

Regardless, great idea, thanks for posting it.

Best,

Dave

Re: Jointer length scraper plane on the cheap

"RJ" Whelan

>Derek .....

A friend brought his first plane to my shop because he just didn't think it was working right. Years ago I wrote a description of how to recondition Bailey style bench planes (on Badger Pond) and he had followed the steps almost to the letter; the only place he failed was the part about the bevel facing down.

Anyway he started trying to plane a scrap of red oak and when I saw the shavings I was pretty amazed and remember thinking "... those look like the shavings from a scraper".

I flipped the iron over and my friend went happily on his way with a fully functional Bedrock #4 he'd bought at a garage sale for $10 - he didn't even realize what a deal he'd gotten (I did tell him not to ever sell the plane - and why).

Like most things with me, this incident didn't immediately register as significant. About two weeks later (in the middle of the night) the light finally went on and I realized that with a little fussing I could probable get this to work with one of my planes. I did pretty much the same thing you did (with a smaller back-bevel and using a Hock iron) and have been happily using my modern era Record #4.5 (that had resisted all attempts at tuning) as a scraper ever since.

rj

but where's the cutting angle adjustment ?

Ian (in Sydney, Australia)

>Good bit of lateral think there Derek � was it somewhat inspired by Terry Gordon's reversible blades? :)

to continue the discussion ...

a "proper" scraper plane has a means of adjusting the cutting angle over a range of about 75� to 95� but as you adjust the angle, the depth of cut also changes � which makes for a tricky balancing act between the two effects (higher angle vs deeper cut) and the blade can have a burr.

your conversion allows one to control the depth of cut but is somewhat time consuming when it comes to modifying the cutting angle.

but then again, looking at how a hand scraper is used, maybe any cutting angle higher than 80� produces a scraping action.

In Ellis's thead mention was made of using a long scraper (say a #7) to remove the ripple from long boards after machine thicknessing. But I wonder why would you? If the electron burning machine is not producing tearout, wouldn't a long smoother (say a #6 or #7) be a better choice for removing the ripple?

which brings my thoughts back to the "best" cutting angle for a scraper plane.

Assuming a thick blade with no drawn burr on the edge

is there one desirable "best" cutting angle? or

will any angle greater than about 80� work? or

should the cutting angle be varied in small increments to best suit the grain direction and wood fibre toughness in the area being scrapped?

David Charlesworth and other expert scraper users, are you looking on ?

I like that idea

Jim in Burlington On

>There was that piece in FWW by Bogg's about turning a block plane into a scraper. I was waiting till I bought a spare A2 blade.I thought how usefull is such a small plane as a scraper. Now I'm wondering how usefull is such a large plane as a scraper. (in a good way)

I do really like your idea. It makes me wonder how closing up the throat might affect the ability to scrape nasty woods. Also how a high tech powdered steel blade might hold a edge and perform. Seems like a few questions that will take a while to get the answers.

Re: I like that idea

Derek Cohen (in Perth, Australia)

>It makes me wonder how closing up the throat might affect the ability to scrape nasty woods.

Hi Jim

The size of the mouth has no effect on the quality of the shaving once the cutting angle gets to about 60 degrees. Wide mouth, tiny mouth - makes no difference.

Also how a high tech powdered steel blade might hold a edge and perform.

Agree. My next step is to hone up a decent, thick iron for edge holding. A HSS blade would be ideal!

Regards from Perth

Derek

Lie-Nielsen has started offering 90 degree blades.

Ian Smith (Sydney Australia)

>If you look at the Lie-Nielsen website you'll notice that Lie-Nielsen has started offering 90 degree blades for the adjustable mouth block plane, the low angle smoother and the low angle jack. This is presumably in response to the Boggs article in FWW. These blades would turn a block plane with a 12 degree bed into a scraper with a blade angled 12 degrees off vertical.

Re: Jointer length scraper plane on the cheap

David Churnega

>Thanks for the advice.

One questions for you though, would this be appropriate for a 5 1/2 C.

I am sitting here looking at intact Stanley with a welded bed and an Ohio (where I'm from) which is equally old. When I merge the Stanely in its bed the mouth is too wide.

I am cooking the Ohio today.

Thanks for the info.

David in Cleveland, Ohio

Re: Jointer length scraper plane on the cheap

Derek Cohen (in Perth, Australia)

>Hi David

I have since honed the 45 degree bevel and given it a camber ala a smoother. This works just great.

There is no reason why this high bed bevel up configuration cannot be applied to any Stanley-type plane, that is, from a #3 upward.

Regards from Perth

Derek

Re: I like that idea

paul womack

>There was that piece in FWW by Bogg's about turning a block plane into a scraper.

I haven't seen that. I *do* remember an email from Don McConnell, back in 1999 (I think - have to check my email archive) concerning grinding a high bevel angle on a block plane - pre-empting the whole "bevel up for smoothing" phenomona by a few years.

BugBear