LN 55 degree frog

Re: LN 55 degree frog

Denis Ch�nard, Orl�ans, Ont.

>No personal experience, I don't even own a LN bench plane. But I do remember Chris Schwartz having tried it, with the comment that it was noticeably harder to push than the 50 degree frog.

So your plan of using it on a #4 seems to make sense.

As for replacement frogs for Stanley planes, seems like a great idea to me!

DC

Re: LN 55 degree frog

Derek Cohen (in Perth, Australia)

>Jim

As far as I am aware, the 55 degree frog is not available for the #4 (yet), and that it is only in the #4 1/2 (#5 1/2, #6, #7) size. Of course, I am open to correction here.

Being used to high cutting angles (with 60 degrees commonly used), I have tended to dismiss the "extra effort" complaints levied at the 50 degree frog (compared to the 45 degree frog). Generally I find high cutting angles in planes like the HNT Gordons or the LV BU smoothers to create no extra effort, especially if one is finish smoothing. I must now change my opinion. I have my LN #4 1/2 (Anniversary bronze) with the 50 degree frog, plus a loaner from a friend of an iron #4 1/2 with the 45 degree frog. The 50 degree frog does require more effort (and both were set for fine shavings as I was planing figured drawer fronts). The new 55 degree frog will, by extrapolation, require more effort than the 50. Nevertheless, I think that it will be worth it - in my experience, on the figured wood I used (Australian Red Cedar) - the 50 noticeably outperformed the 45 in terms of finish. I could take the 50 into the grain while the 45 could just cope with the grain. I will certainly be getting the 55 frog for my #4 1/2.

Regards from Perth

Derek

Re: LN 55 degree frog

Christopher Schwarz

>I used a 55� and a 50� side-by-side for a month. Yes, the 55� is a bit harder to push, but that's not really an issue with smoothing planes because of the light cut.

The 55� frog seemed to dull the iron faster. But it did help with some reverse-grain domestics that the 50� frog didn't handle. For exotics, I think you need to get to 60� plus.

The 55� frog is good option if you work with maple or cherry. I don't think you need both the 50� and the 55�.

Chris

Re: LN 55 degree frog

Derek Cohen (in Perth, Australia)

>I don't think you need both the 50� and the 55�.

Chris, you are right of course. For the woods I work with I'd rather have a 60 degree frog. So the higher the angle the better. If I had a 55, I would not see any point in keeping the 50. Perhaps I should ask Thomas LN if a 60 is on the cards. That would make the decision so much simpler.

Adding a backbevel is not an option (as cheap as it is). I know this would work, but I do not want the added complication.

Regards from Perth

Derek

Re: LN 55 degree frog

Paul Kierstead

>I still find the effective cutting angle vrs. design (or is it construction?) to be interesting. I am currently patiently saving up for a Sauer and Steiner Panel Plane or Smoother (I like buying local and the planes are lovely). He normally offers 45-50 degree cutting angles. I look at Lyn J. Mangiameli's Testing and in his test a "lowly" 47 1/2 degree angle plane (admittedly a very fine one and yes, that is a pun) generally outperformed everything by a significant amount. So then I get confused; will a 47 1/2 degree Sauer do what a 55 degree LN #4 can? Will it do less? More? I keep getting this feeling that "high angle == better tough grain performance" is an oversimplification that may being doing it a disservice.

PK, still confused as to the factors determining great performance, still saving....

Re: LN 55 degree frog

Denis Ch�nard, Orl�ans, Ont.

>"high angle == better tough grain performance"

True, ceteris paribus. But with the infill's better bedding of the blade a lower angle can be used.

Joel Moscowitz commented on the UK forum that with the Stanley design (that inlcludes LN, Clifton, etc.) when the blade dulls the plane starts to chatter on the wood. With an infill the plane just gets harder to push.

Also, infill planes often use thicker blades, which help too.

Anyway, that's my understanding of the phenomenon...

DC

Re: LN 55 degree frog

Brent in Montreal

>Hi Paul...I have a 47 1/2 degree Sauer and Steiner Panel Plane. I can tell you that it handles just about anything. I've used it on gnarly grained exotics and come out with a beautiful surface. I can't comment on this blade angle versus that blade angle, I just use what feels right and switch if it does'nt. I think Denis is probably right in his reasoning for the lower angle of the S&S performing as good a job as higher angle "Stanley" style planes.

Re: LN 55 degree frog

Scott Burr in Ben Lomond CA

>I just saw the bease a few days ago. I have a LN 4.5 with the 50 deg frog and find it no harder to push than the 45 deg. one.

As stated by Derek, mine is also set with a very fine mouth. I'd like to put one in the Bronze 4.5 LN and see how it would perform.

Re: LN 55 degree frog

dave brown

>I'm sure Tom might consider a 60 degree frog if response to the 55 degree frog is good. But, I think that higher angle frogs are destined to be poor sellers. Out of 100 no4 owners, 10 might buy 50 degree frogs, 5 might buy a 55 degree frog and 1 might buy 60 degree frog. Just my rough guess at percentages and something that Tom surely considers when getting ready to machine a bunch of bronze.

I've been talking to Tom about a 50 degree frog for his no3 but haven't heard back on that in a while. Supposedly it's on his "in the works" list. ;-)

I'd be interested in a 60 degree frog!!

Ian Smith (Sydney Australia)

>I have a LN 4-1/2 with a 50 degree frog but sometimes it's not enough to produce a satisfactorily smoothed surface (highly figured eucalypts). With these timbers I often find that I need a blade honed with a 50 degree bevel in my low angle jack (62 degrees total) to produce a tear-out free surface. I'd love to put a 60 degree frog in my 4-1/2 and give it a whirl.

Regards,

Ian.