Removing cracked Japaning: Is bead blasting bad?

Re: Removing cracked Japaning: Is bead blasting ba *LINK*

Jack Guzman from Maine

>Dom,

I don't know anything about bead blasting but I can direct you to a link on japanning that may be helpful. It's right here in our own articles section.---Jack


Japanning article

Thanks Jack!

Dominic Greco in Richboro PA

>Jack,

Excellent! While it doesn't tell me about bead blasting, this well written article gives me many of the answers I was looking for.

I'm embarrased to say that I never thought to look in the articles section for information like this.

Thanks again for pointing me in the right direction.

See ya around,

Dominic

I've done five so far . . .

s.mackay@worldnet.att.net

>but it was to remove ALL of the finnish. Does a great job. If I just want to remove such finnish as WANTS to come off I scrape it. Sorry, I probably mis-read the question.

A small update: 2 Part epoxy paint?

Dominic Greco in Richboro PA

>I just spoke with my friend here who has the sand blasting cabinet. While I fully intend to try the chemical stripper first, some time soon we're going to try bead blasting a busted up parts plane I have to see how that will work.

When I brought up the subject of re-applying the japaning, he mentioned a 2 part epoxy paint he used to refurbish some John Deer tractor parts. He said that it's tough, durable, self leveling, and dries to a glossy finish. He said he'll bring in a tool that he's painted so I can see how it came out.

In the Article Jack pointed to I read how some people used different types of paint as opposed to the "authentic coat and bake process". I wonder if anyone has tried 2 part epoxy paint?

Don't Use It!

Stephen Shepherd in the State of Deseret

>

Please explain!

Dominic Greco in Richboro PA

>Now that you have my attention, please tell me why!

Dominic

Re: Please explain!

Stephen Shepherd in the State of Deseret

>Consider the date of the manufacture of the tool and the date of epoxy, they don't match.

Use the original Japanning Varnish finish (and there are many recipes).

If you use a modern finish you will devalue the piece. Besides the modern finishes look nothing like the original japanning. Sort of a dead look, like dolls eyes.

Stephen

A good read

Stephen Shepherd in the State of Deseret

>A Treatise on Japaning and Varnishing, Parker Stalker, Alec Tiranti Ltd., London, England, 1688. It has been reprinted.

Stephen

Users Vs "Collectable Antiques" (long)

Dominic Greco in Richboro PA

>Stephen,

You wrote:

"Consider the date of the manufacture of the tool and the date of epoxy, they don't match. Use the original Japanning Varnish finish (and there are many recipes). If you use a modern finish you will devalue the piece. Besides the modern finishes look nothing like the original japanning. Sort of a dead look, like dolls eyes."

I understand your comment about maintaining the value of this tool and respect your opinion on this matter. I read your recent post where you lamented people altering antique tools. At the time I choose not to comment. However, since this in my hand plane we're talking about, I feel I have a right. In short, I respectfully disagree with your statement.

This old Ohio Jointer Plane is one I purchased for about $15 and a hand plane I want to USE. This is not a limited edition Bedrock, nor a plane of high value. I do not consider this a collector's item to be set on a shelf. Nor am I planning on eventually selling them off to the highest bidder on Ebay. I'm more concerned about them being useful tools, resisting rust, and maintaining the appearance of well cared for tools.

While I am not fully conversant with the original Japaning method, I understand that it involves baking the body of the plane in an oven. I read more about this process on other sites and was somewhat alarmed to learn that due to the fumes of the curing finish it was recommended that the oven used NOT be a gas fired oven. (Guess which kind I have?) So at minimum I stink up the house. Worst case I blow it to smithereens.:>( Or I end up trying to find a toaster oven that can fit a 18" long jointer plane.

And if I had removed the old Japaning, and replaced it with a new coat of the same, wouldn't I be altering the tool's finish anyway? Didn't the act of removing/grinding off the old japaning itself devalued the tool?

Further more, if someone decades from now wants to re-apply the japaning (in the old method) to my hand planes, won't they have a nice clean base to work off of?

Dominic

Dom...

Denis Ch�nard, Orl�ans, Ont.

>If the plane cost you $15, how much do you want to spend making it look spiffy, considering that in your own admission this is a user plane?

I'd say, leave the finish alone, tune it up, and use it to your heart's content. Whatever finish you put on it won't make it perform any better, and stored in "normal" conditions it won't rust.

If your storage area or shop is humid to the point of stimulating rust, coat the surface with Boeshield T-9, camelia oil, whatever rust inhibitor you already have.

I think you should focus on things to be made with the plane instead of things to be done to the plane...

My own humble opinion,

DC

Re: Users Vs "Collectable Antiques" (long)

markfromsacramento

>This is a silly discussion. Refinish it however you wish. So what if your $15 plane is now only worth $7? Keep it simple though--remove any rust and then brush on gloss black enamel, about 4 heavy coats and be done with it.

Re: Users Vs "Collectable Antiques" (long)

Moses Yoder in White Pigeon, MI

>We all go through this issue as we start using hand tools to complement our power tools. Some people really don't care what their tools look like but most people think the image of the craftsman is very important. A good craftsman will take good care of his tools; he depends on them to feed his large family. Take care of your tools and they will take care of you. The first impression that we make when people look at our shop may be shallow but in my opinion it is important. One of the reasons why I would not let anyone into my shop at this moment is because I have been working on a number of other things and the shop is a mess. If our shop and our tools are a mess then it stands to reason our life is a mess. If our shop and tools are in order then our life must be in order.

Some old tools have developed a nice patina from use with care. These I leave alone other than gentle cleaning. Others have developed something much worse from abuse and neglect. I feel sorry for these old tools that were left out in the rain or the manure pile with no one to care for them. Some tools have been so neglected that the best solution is a proper burial. Others still have many years of serviceable life left in them. What to do with a tool that has been abused but could still be restored to almost the original condition? That is the question. My suggestion is to try the japanning first since this is where you will learn the most. You will be on very intimate terms with this tool when you are done with it. Go ahead and use the gas stove. If you let the japanned plane dry in the sun for three days before baking there will not be many fumes left. And the idea of exploding the stove is comical. I don't beleive there is any scientific basis for this fear. On the other hand if you really want to try the epoxy paint you are still taking good care of the tool and I am pretty sure the paint will work good and prevent rust.

Re: A good read

Marv

>Hi Dominic,

I'm far from an expert on Japaning but I remember reading an article couple years ago that Japaning was an old process developed in Japan and is an extract from a certain kind of tree that grows there. Applying Japaning to metal requires a high temp. heating process and baking on several coats in order to achieve the finish that we see on so many of the old tools that were made back in the 1800,s and even earlier. The word Japaning has become sort of a generic turn used to describe any old painted surface on metal.

Marv

Re: Don't Use It!

Marv

>Discussing how and what to do with an old tool as far as restoring it, is like discussing religion or politics. Different strokes for different folks. I recondition old handsaws. Some of them I will effect every inch while others I do very little to. It depends mainly on what I like to see in the end product. A lot of the saws I recondition I sell on eBay. I find that there's a buyer for each saw regardless of what I do to it. Bottom line for me, in most cases, is to make the tool functional again and to make it so the new owner can own it with pride and even use it if he/she wants to. Having said that, there are some basic rules that should be followed when bringing an old tool back to life if there is concern about retaining that old patina that has taken years to develope. But now we get into that grey area that alot of us don't always agree on. It's a sujective issue, a personal preference with alot of latitude. And the beat goes on.......Marv

I'm with mark

Hank Knight

>Dom, I agree with Mark, this is a silly discussion. It's your plane and you should do with it as you please. Paint it with pink latex wall paint if it makes you happy. You don't owe posterity anything. If it were an 18K solid gold anniversary edition Norris, the same would apply. You own it and it is yours to do with as you please. If you choose to be historically correct and do the real japanning thing, that's fine. If you just want to clean it up and make it shiny with black epoxy paint, that's fine too. It's your plane.

My experience *LINK*

woodburnbob

>Dominic, in your researching the topic, you may miss a thread earlier in the year in which I show some sandblasted planes. Perhaps more useful, I show some pages from an old Japanning book.

My take on the process is that it isn't worth the effort. Philosophically, it's yet another instance of the futility of trying to turn back the clock. Think Phyllis Diller and plastic surgery.

You made me laugh!

Dominic Greco in Richboro PA

>Bob,

You wrote:

"Think Phyllis Diller and plastic surgery."

Now THERE'S an image I didn't need to visualize! :>)

Thanks for the laugh (and the information).

Dominic

Well said!

Dominic Greco in Richboro PA

>

2cents. If its worth the effort to . . .

s.mackay@worldnet.att.net

>clean, strip and love on its worth putting on real jappaning. Its not really that hard to do and, I'm sorry, NOTHING looks like that finnish !

Painted a Bedrock with Rustoleum

jim reed @ tallahassee

>This paint beats any formula of japan you can make and bake. I have a Rustoleum painted #48 going on 5+ years and it still looks great. When I finish the rehab on the Bedrock I will post some pictures. Paint/smaint. I say use the best product you can find and some 75 year old asphalt based formula ain't it. Collectors may have a different opinion. All I can say is that any plane needing restoration of finish is probably not a collector's item in the first place.

You crack me up Jim!

Dominic Greco in Richboro PA

>You summarized my feelings exactly! Plus, you made me chuckle. :>)

Thanks,

Dominic

Re: Painted a Bedrock with Rustoleum

Marv

>Jim,

How would one define "a collector's item"? Among my collection of tools are some new ones that have never been used. They looked unique when I saw them in the hardware store, mainly wrenches and hammers. IMO...a tool doesn't have to be old to be included in a collection of tools. However, my feelings toward the old ones is different than the new ones. By old, I refer to tools made before and around the turn of the 19th century but not exclusively. This is one of those discussions that has no conclusions, but still fun to exchange thoughts and opinions.....Marv

Re: Painted a Bedrock with Rustoleum

Jim Reed @ Tallahassee

>Actually I was referring to Stanley plane collectors. I think the discriminating Stanley plane collector is interested in mint in box (MIB) planes. Anything below that quality level is not for really serious collectors; they appeal more to user collectors.

Stanley bench planes with japan finish problems are available in the tens of thousands and are not rare. Just seems to me that the owner should not feel guilty by painting them. They are not destroying any value--quite the contrary, a good paint job will raise the value of the plane by making it appeal to certain users. In my experience there is a large market out there for refurbished planes that look like new. They often snag a premium on ebay.