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Looking back, and advice to new guys.

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Looking back, and advice to new guys.

#1

Looking back, and advice to new guys.

James Watriss

>Almost exactly 4 years ago I graduated Tufts University, having little or no idea what the hell I�m supposed to do with an English degree. I finished my first workshop at North Bennet Street School, namely the Fundamentals of fine woodworking; Sharpening, basic joinery, etc. I spent the next year and a half cleaning out and setting up �shop� in my apartment�s basement, with the blessings of my truly wonderful landlords. I played a lot with dovetails, and built a pair of stacking chests of drawers modeled roughly after a set of campaign chests I saw in a Taunton book.

A year and a half ago I took my second workshop at NBSS with the intent of getting a recommendation, which happened almost immediately, and in February of 2005, I started the full time program in cabinet/furniture. I finished up in February, and graduated 2 weeks ago.

This past Christmas vacation, I was going through my basement, trying to re-arrange things with the intent of setting up a renewed shop down there, since I really hadn�t used the space much since I started at school. It�s amazing going through old time capsules like that. It�s amazing how many small scraps I had saved, neatly stickered on strips of corrugated cardboard. Wood I�d forgotten I had. Tools I�d forgotten existed, and reasons for saving them that I�m still unclear on.

Moving out of NBSS was a similar experience. I unearthed a small bundle of forgotten transitional planes. I think I remember why I thought they were cool, but I�m still unsure if the effort required was really worth it. I neatly boxed up the few wooden tools I�ve made over the past 2 years; a spokeshave, a few planes, and 2 mallets. Other old tools I�d forgotten (my Veritas skew chisels, for instance, some old chisels that never really flattened out�) and a small horde of various sharpening stones emerged, evidence of my continuing pursuit of the best way to sharpen things. Not to mention the mountain of wood.

I�ve been subletting a chunk of a space in a local building, and I�m planning on moving into my own space sometime very soon, right down the hall. Soon I can embark on some new projects, and learn all about how to sell myself, and my work� which is a whole new ball of wax. I�ll say this about North Bennet. I�m absolutely sure of my skill as a woodworker. But piles of dovetails and pictures of shiny work just can�t teach you how not to feel like a used car salesman when you�re trying to talk someone out of a really serious sum of money.

It�s hard to believe so much has happened in 4 years. It�s really remarkable.

I�ve spent varying amounts of time in here. Sometimes it was very enlightening. Other times, it was the latest thread on what the best low-angle plane is, and why. But I digress�

I feel like I have to say something to new woodworkers, because I�m very aware that there are a lot of them out there. So here goes�

-First and foremost. Beware this place, and beware the sales pitches that have been plaguing new woodworking tool shops. The internet can hold a vast pile of useful information. It can also act as a neatly packaged co-dependent for people who are trying to justify the latest tool purchase. A bench doesn�t have to be much more than a few stout planks and a couple of sawhorses.

Tool worship doesn�t always translate into good work. Jim Krenov understood that very well. But his planes still sell for huge sums of money. Tools don�t have to be pretty. They have to be sharp, and they have to be good enough to help you make pretty things.

A $300 Lie-Nielsen #4 is a beauty to behold, and I can say they work amazingly well. But my old sweethearts do too. And old sweetheart Stanley planes can be had for $40 on the �bay. Try to see the potential for good work that the tool represents, and don�t worry about the shiny, pretty, workmanship, etc sales pitches. You�re buying a tool, not investing in a collectible. (Well, some of us are buying a tool, anyway.)

-Don�t blame your tools. Old master craftsmen did amazing work with old wooden tools that could warp, or wear in unexpected ways. And with materials that also could react in unexpected ways.

Try this one. Don�t blame. Don�t worry, either. Learn all you can from every experience, and see things for what they are. If you�re a novice, and you do novice work, that�s fantastic. Do a little better next time, learn from everything and anything. Keep your eyes open. Don�t fault yourself for being whatever it is that you are. There�s no shame in not knowing everything, even after you�ve been reading Fine Woodworking for a year. There�s no need to blame anything if you�re not actually doing anything wrong.

-Keep with it. Even if it�s only once a week or so. Even if you can only afford to work with pine. Even if you�re not working with the best tools. If you stay with woodworking long enough, you�ll start to develop your skill. That�s more important when you�re starting out than materials or quality of tools. I know guys at North Bennet that did gorgeous work with minimal, and sometimes poor quality tools.

-Remember that the masters weren�t working with electricity. Routers, table saws, and other things are great. But they won�t compensate for a will to work, and a little bit of creativity in solving problems. It�s true that the Shakers came up with the table saw, but that only served to make their already high level of craftsmanship a little more efficient.

-Reading is no substitute for working. This bears repeating.

-Reading is no substitute for working, and information without experience is dangerous. You can read about low angle planes in here all day long, and still never know what it feels like to finally get a blade sharp enough to slice cleanly through end grain. There�s no point in debating how much longer a Lie-Nielsen chisel will hold an edge when you can�t put an edge on an Irwin in the first place. And it�s all well and good to talk about how hard it is to work with curly maple, but if you haven�t even figured out regular maple yet, you�re regurgitating someone else�s information, you�re not speaking from experience.

I can understand the impulse to sound learned, especially in today�s academic world. But I have so much more fun talking to someone who�s in the middle of trying to figure things out, because they�re actually learning. I was talking to someone in a woodworking store the other day, and they had all this information from magazines and such on how much better this tool was than that tool, and why this one was much more versatile, but when I asked them how it affected their work, they were oddly silent on the matter. Oddly enough, they were pretty silent on the topic of their work in general, even though they had oh so much to say about the newest tools in the store.

-Woodworkers go through two initial stages, it seems. First, they buy tools. Then, they collect wood. I like what Sam Maloof had to say about wood. I�ll paraphrase, because I can�t find the quote, (and now that I think about it, it might have been George Nakashima, instead�) but basically, he said that he had a working relationship with the wood, and not a worship relationship. Good wood is awesome to behold, this is true. But it�s also a material to be worked with. Make the best you can with what you have, but don�t get too emotionally involved with the wood itself. It�s true, you have a great relationship while you�re working together, but there will be other woods over the years, and all will have their own personalities.

Just do the best work you can, and don�t burden yourself with too much over-thinking about the significance of whether or not something should have been otherwise. You do the best you can with what you have in the way of tools, knowledge, and materials at the time. More tools will be made. More wood will grow. I promise you, this will happen. Just learn everything you can from what�s in front of you at the time.

-Take classes if you have time and money. A picture�s worth a thousand words. A little supervision can be worth a million. It�s always better to learn in person, because the instructor can see first hand how and what you�re doing, both right and wrong.

-If you ever think about buying a table saw, take a class first. I read somewhere that over 70% of new woodworker injuries to beginners happen on the tablesaw. Your buddy the contractor may have started as a new guy on a framing crew that uses an underpowered benchtop saw, and he�s used to jam-ups instead of kickback, and as long as he can fit his finger between the blade and the fence, he might not use a push-stick, either. The learning curve is huge, and the school of hard knocks on a tablesaw can be literally deadly. Thin strips can knife through you, and fingers can sometimes only be re-attached if you�re lucky. I can�t stress this enough. The table saw is probably one of the most useful tools in a woodworking shop, but YOU HAVE TO KNOW HOW TO USE IT SAFELY. Even if it�s only so you can continue to pick your nose, take the time and spend the money to learn everything you can from someone who teaches table saw safety for a living.

There�s more, and I probably should have waxed a little more poetic in here. Woodwork can be immensely satisfying, heartbreaking, stressful, challenging, rewarding, expensive, absolutely worth it, consuming, and transforming� if you let it.

All my best to the new guys, and hope to see you around.

James

Re: Looking back, and advice to new guys.

#2

Thanks

Bill Houghton, Sebastopol, CA

>There's a lot in your post - bears printing out.

I'm not a new guy, mostly; though I have been so focused on carpentry since we bought our house a decade ago that I feel like one. I've certainly come to a lot of the same discoveries myself over 39 years of struggling with tools (I'm 58; I really started using tools properly at 19, when I bought my first motorcyle; thus, 39 years). What you've said can't be repeated often enough; even a member of my family, who shall remain nameless but who is older than I, has fallen into some of the traps you describe.

Re: Looking back, and advice to new guys.

#3

Thanks too!

Stuart Hough

>I am unabashedly a novice. I have read your post twice, and it all makes sense. You might think it a bit long, but I feel it covered most evrything that nneded saying. Woodworking as a philosophy...that's why this stuff appeals to me!

Re: Looking back, and advice to new guys.

#4

Re: Looking back, and advice to new guys.

Denis Ch�nard, Orl�ans, Ont.

>I agree with many statements that you made, but there are others that raised my blood pressure...

First, I don't believe for a minute that your "old sweethearts" can hold a candle to the new planes out there, whether they be LN, Veritas, Sauer, Holtey, Marcou, etc. If they do, this means that you haven't tried gnarly enough timber yet, otherwise you're telling us that these planes are just marketing gimmicks, and I would surmise that these plane manufacturers will have quite an issue with this statement. I managed to plane bird's eye maple with a $35 Groz plane, but the plane needed a lot of fettling to get there, and for someone who has less time than money that $300 plane you mentioned might be worth it for them.

Some of us (put me in this group) spend more time with tools than actually building things. There's a rationale behind this. With little available time in the shop (three young boys will do that to you), one wants to spend as little time as possible tinkering with tools, and as such want tools that perform out of the box. So we do research (sometimes during office hours, shoot me...) on what's best out there, price and quality wise. So, when we finally get some shop time we can be sure that whenever problems occur, it's not because of the lack of tool quality. At some point (which I'd like to think I'm reaching) tool debates take a back seat and we start building stuff with confidence. At the point where I am, I know that when a problem comes up it's not for the lack of quality tools...

The day I bought a decent dovetail saw, it made a whole world of difference to me. There are some out there who insist in using older and/or inferior tools, thinking that proficiency will compensate for poor tool quality. These people don't work wood for a living...

Good tools cost money. The fact that you can buy a Bedrock for less than a new LN tells one fact, that in this case they do make them better than they used to. Otherwise LN would be out of business, and old Stanleys would cost much more than what they currently sell for...

I could go on but I will stop there for now...

DC

Re: Looking back, and advice to new guys.

#5

for a living

Warren in Lancaster, PA

>Denis, I find it rather presumptuous of you to speak for those who "work wood for a living". After 20 years of fulltime work I have never had to sand or scrape a flat piece of wood. I still have but two smoothing planes, one that I bought new in 1973 for $11 and one I bought used in 1981 for $20. Hand planed surfaces are a part of my reputation- the last time I had trouble with tearout was in 1977.

For someone using hand tools every day, there are three costs to buying a new tool . The purchase price may be dwarfed by the cost of getting the tool ready to use and the huge cost of gaining the ease and familiarity one has with a tool that he has used for many years.

Re: Looking back, and advice to new guys.

#6

Re: Looking back, and advice to new guys.

James Watriss

>Denis I have to apologize for getting your blood boiling. I'll readily concede that there's something to be said for having a tool more ready out of the box. But a few hours with a flattening plate and a Charlesworth book has done wonders for my old sweethearts. I've planed reflective surfaces on curly maple with this plane. It's a #3 that bears a stamp you'll never, ever see Stanley use again: "Rejected." And while the blades may be thinner than the newer stuff, Sweetheart blades are actually forged, laminated steel, like on the old tapered irons that everyone prizes so much.

Yes, it takes a lot more time, and patience. But a Sweetheart is not a Groz. Groz makes an unconscionable piece of garbage. If you loosen the screws, a sweetheart frog will slide back and forth like it's on a rail... very precisely. Those old planes are from a time when a plane cost two weeks wages, instead of a weeks' lunch. The machining is actually very good. And Bedrock planes only sell for that much less when they've been used hard and look the worse for wear. The others sell for exorbitant amounts. Collectors have done a disservice to the used tool market. That said, I've bought planes that collectors wouldn't touch with someone else's finger, and made them to work wonders that my compatriots with new L-N stuff can't do, because they never took the time to learn how.

I wrote what I wrote for the vast majority of people I meet on a regular basis who do have more time than money. But after selling them for a few years, I've noticed two types of people.

-The first group is composed of people who are in the thick of a pile of bubinga, they've been at this for a while, and they look for every advantage they can get. They need the better steel, and they get a lot from the heft of the L-N stuff. They know what they're looking at, and they've fettled enough planes to know a time-saver when they see one. And they know the value of the old planes.

-The second group is composed of people who assume that price and final finish are a good indication of quality, and that's not always the case. They'll come in on a 10% sale day and buy a #8 and a #1. And acres of anodized aluminum widgets. About a month later they'll come in with questions about how to sharpen.

I concede that not everyone has the time. But I've gone both routes. My tool chest from school has old sweethearts, a new L-N #4, a low angle jack, a japanese plane, and a mathieson smoother. I've built a few wooden planes myself. I've seen the new stuff, I've seen the old stuff, I've tried a lot of different planes. I can make ribbons with all of them. I've gone both ways, and I learned far more from fettling those old sweethearts, and learning what actually helps, than I ever did from buying any other kind of tool and trusting to the manufacturer's good sense. Thomas Lie-Nielsen has acres of good sense, and I've seen enough of you in here to think that you do, too. But here, we diverge in our opinions.

Re: Looking back, and advice to new guys.

#7

Re: for a living

Denis Ch�nard, Orl�ans, Ont.

>Presumptuous? I guess you're right, my apologies...

This said, since you haven't had a problem with tearout in the last 30 years (quite a feat!), could I ask what species you work with, is the wood air- or kiln-dried, plain or figured, any exotics in the mix?

All I know is that there are some pretty experienced (and well-known) people out there who have experienced tearout with the wood they use, and have found out that the expensive planes do work better.

There is a perception among many that old tools are as good or better than the current quality offerings. If one thinks about it for a second, the statement doesn't hold the road...

The ironic thing in all this is that a proficient person can make a lesser quality tool work well, for a beginner this obstacle might be too much and drive the person towards tailed tools...

DC

Re: Looking back, and advice to new guys.

#8

Pretty wise from a young guy

Kokomo Ron

>Very well said. Especially the part about actually doing something instead of just talking about "maybe getting ready when I find out the best way, and how are you guys doing something, and what tools you usin and why".

Re: Looking back, and advice to new guys.

#9

Agree with James

Kokomo Ron

>Obviously it is your time and your shop and you may certainly use your time however you wish. There are guys on this site that really don't make anything. That is cool.. they like hand tools.

Go to Colonial Williamsburg and see the incredible quality of their work before Economaki, Lie-Nielson, or Holtey started making tools.

Tools do not make furniture. Craftsmen do.

Re: Looking back, and advice to new guys.

#10

Nicely conceived and written.

woodburnbob

>I'd say you got your money's worth from your English degree.

I'd be curious to know two things:

Where'd you do all the selling of planes and aluminum gizmos?

What is the wholesale-retail spread on LN planes for big-volume retailers?

Re: Looking back, and advice to new guys.

#11

Re: Looking back, and advice to new guys.

Denis Ch�nard, Orl�ans, Ont.

>Well, boiling was probably too strong a word...

I'm confused as what you refer to as "sweetheart". Do you mean the sweetheart era itself, or do you refer to Bailey vs. Bedrock?

Those laminated steel blades do have a good reputation. Never tried them, though.

As for Groz, I didn't want to imply that they're on par with vintage Stanleys in terms of quality, but they can be made to work quite well. About a month ago I bought an Award #4 (another Indian manufacturer) that was on sale for $17. I couldn't resist, I had to check out how bad it was. Turned out that this plane required very little fettling to perform quite well.

It is true that buying a new plane from the quality manufacturers doesn't make one proficient in its use, but it removes one variable from the equation. Whether that's a good thing is debatable, but the new plane will get the beginner on the road to wispy shavings faster.

I know a guy, owner of many vintage Stanley planes, very proficient in their use and care, who ended up buying a Veritas LA jack after trying mine. To me that says a lot...

In the end we can choose to differ, nothing here worth starting a gunfight over, I thought it worthy to express a differing point of view.

Take care,

DC

Re: Looking back, and advice to new guys.

#12

Re: Looking back, and advice to new guys.

Paul in NJ

>I agree with most of your post except for:

"Collectors have done a disservice to the used tool market".

I think we should thank the collectors for the used tool market. If it wasn't for collectors, old tools would have little value and we would see very little of them at flea markets and on Ebay. One of the best ways to buy used tools are from collectors at regional tool meets put on by organizations like CRAFTS, PATINA, and MWTCA. It wasn't that long ago that people would burn wooden planes for firewood. I think there is plenty room for collectors and users in the used tool market.

Regards,

Paul Dzioba - Mostly a user but sometimes a collector.

Re: Looking back, and advice to new guys.

#13

Tools that work for us.

Thomas Skaggs, Foothills of Mount Level

>Sometimes the choice of tools is simply a matter of choice. Some folks simply choose to work with older tools and some with new ones. The tools I like to work with the most are the ones that work well for me.

Example...I have a set of LN bench chisels. I also have my first set of chisels...a set of Marples blue chips. I love the LN chisels. But why do I so often find myself reaching for my old Marples? Because they work well for me and I am comfortable with them.

Then there are guys who make a living with tools who simply can't afford new, top of the line tools. I know a guy in southern Indiana who is a remarkable craftsman. He works in an old leaky barn in the country. His tools look like leftovers from a garage sale. But his work is excellent. The one thing I noticed about his tools is that he kept them sharp and he respected them. We talked about tools for a while and I came to learn two things: Despite being a busy professional woodworker he didn't have a budget for "upgrading" his tools. And I also learned that he didn't see "upgrading" as a priority because the tools he owned already gave him the results he wanted.

I don't have any sage wisdom here, just some observations for what they are worth.

Tom

Re: Looking back, and advice to new guys.

#14

Re: for a living

Warren in Lancaster, PA

>Denis

You asked what woods I work with. I have probably worked fifty or sixty woods in my business, but most work is limited to about ten woods- kiln dried domestic hardwoods and mahogany and white pine. When you work for others you have to use what they ask for. Some woods I wouldn't mind working all the time and other woods I wouldn't mind if I never saw again.

I think a limited palette of woods is probably better for craftsnmanship. When I work the same wood for a long period the quality of the work and the ease of working both improve.

Re: Looking back, and advice to new guys.

#15

Re: Looking back, and advice to new guys.

Dave Anderson Chester, NH

>Hi James, I'm not sure I would agree with everything you've said, but I like and appreciate the overall tone. If I had to distill the basic premise of your post, it would be that no tools, time reading or talking about woodworking, or anthing else can substitute for experience and practice. To wit, to get good at working wood -you have to spend a lot of time working wood.

I would say that your post is keeper and a reality check for those who are just starting out and for those of us who sometimes lose sight of our original goals.

Re: Looking back, and advice to new guys.

#16

On Second thought....

Thomas Skaggs, Foothills of Mount Level

>....I guess I do have a smidgeon of philosophy.... (for what it's worth)

James makes some comments, especially about safety. Anyone's first introduction to woodworking should be focussed on safety.

However, in the big scheme of life I think that the fruits of our labor is all that really matters. Whatever we endeavor to make, if we are happy with the results then it really doesn't matter how we got there. New tools, old tools, cheap tools, expensive tools, formal education, self taught, hand tools, power tools...none of that really matters.

It only matters if you think it matters. If you feel it is important to work only with old hand tools in traditional methods then that's cool. If you want to burn up electrons, then that's cool too.

We all take different paths on the journey called "woodworking". In the end, all that matters is that we enjoyed the experience along the way and like appreciate the fruits that our journeys bear.

Tom

Re: Looking back, and advice to new guys.

#17

Re: Looking back, and advice to new guys.

Charles

>May I have your permission to copy this post on another woodworking forum?

Re: Looking back, and advice to new guys.

#18

Re: Looking back, and advice to new guys.

James Watriss

>I'm not sure what normal standards and etiquette would be, this isn't my website.

I don't mind, though, providing there's a link somewhere citing the source.

Re: Looking back, and advice to new guys.

#19

Enthusiasm but...

Dean Lapinel

>I like your pride and enthusiasm but you will find that in about 5 years or so you will find flaws in some of your comments. That is the nature of experience and learning.

Re: Looking back, and advice to new guys.

#20

Sweethearts, and the first wisps of a manifesto

James Watriss

>Hi Denis.

***

Sorry in advance for letting this response get out of hand. I've been in a huff lately, to the point where it's begun to get me in trouble in certain areas of my life. It's time I started writing more, so as to get such things out of my system.

***

According to a quick scan of google results, Stanley Sweetheart planes (and other tools) were made around 1919-1932. I'm not a history buff when it comes to my planes, so this is only as accurate as my 2 second sweep of the results page.

Basically, I find the following features in evidence among these oldies but goodies:

-The sweetheart logo has "SW" inside a heart shape on the iron. These old irons were in fact laminated steel, much like the japanese tools everyone prizes, as well as the old, tapered irons that are also prized from old woodies from "back in the day." More succinctly, these irons were made as well as stanley knew how to make them at the time, instead of being made as cheaply as they could, which seems to be the case these days.

-The surface of the frog is perfectly flat. No carved out recesses, such as you'll find on any of the current baileys, or bailey clones. It's a solid, smooth frog.

-The handles were actual rosewood, and generally were shaped a lot mroe pleasantly. This is, of course, a matter of taste, but the cross section was a little more ovular, instead of the "flat board with a half round on each edge" that many of the planes were handled with after WWII.

-As I mentioned, the frogs generally seat a lot more solidly, and squarely. When loosened, they slide back and forth very precisely.

-As I also mentioned, Stanley had, somewhere in their possession at the time, a quality control division. They themselves were in possession of a stamp that would leave the impression "rejected." (Or something similar, it's been a while since I looked at that stamp on my old #3, so it might be a different word.)

There are a lot of these planes on ebay. Many of them are ugly. Almost all of them have been used. But many of them survive, with intact and usable irons, usable if not flawless handles, and solid castings. But no, they're not so shiny anymore. I've got a couple of #3s, one of which is corrugated, and is one of my favorite planes all around. It's also the one that failed QC. I have no idea why.

To be fair, I did eventually upgrade to a Hock iron, with a Hock chip breaker. Thicker blades do make a difference, and so do thick chip-breakers, which do a remarkable job of springing the blade. There's something about the old SW iron, though, that leaves a surface on hard maple that looks almost burnished. It's almost reflective, and really quite remarkable.

A couple of hours with a Charlesworth book, and a little effort on my part, resulted in a #4 plane with a very well bedded frog (better than when I got it, which was already pretty good) and with a very sharp iron. Put up against my L-N 4, blades beign more or less equal, I really couldn't tell the difference.

And so on.

I am aware that my experiences aren't the norm. Not everyone has the time or training or the need to sharpen as often as a full time woodworking student. I wouldn't inflict the flattening woes I had with an old 5 1/2c on anyone. The corrugations are tapered now. I've been sharpening things at least as far back as my army days, which would be 15 years ago. (I'm 33) I also took a quick workshop learning about japanese planes, and how to tune them up. I've built a couple of wooden planes, and a wooden spokeshave, and spent a lot of time getting an old transitional to work. Some of my original issues with transitionals may be in my technique, but one way or another, I did get it to work. Wedged wooden planes were a lot easier to figure out than I'd originally thought, and one of them is actually the best smoother that I have.

At the end of the day, the business end of a good plane is the blade. The blade itself has to be of good steel, that can be made to be sharp, and preferably, that can retain that sharpness. And the blade must be held stable, in whatever fashion is appropriate to the plane.

Yes, I'm a confessed plane geek. The news I bring back from my obsessions isn't really news to some folks, but it is heartening. A little time, a little effort, and a lot less than $300 can provide you with a really, really nice plane, which will do very good things for you.

One of the intended points of my original post is that anyone with a willingness to learn doesn't have to believe the hype.

You don't need a Lie-Nielsen plane to do the best work possible. It helps, to be sure, but even then, only if you know how to sharpen. I knew a guy in school who had a chest full of L-N stuff, but at the end of the day, sharpening was the bane of his existence. He had a really hard time figuring it out.

Likewise, you don't need a 3000 pound european bench with God's Gift(c) Super-Jesus pattern vises. It helps, and lord knows they're sexier than a swimsuit model. (almost) But not necessary. I built some of my early projects on a pair of 2x12s and some sawhorses.

At this point, I think I'd need a happy medium. My bench at home is closely related to Ian Kirby's bench; Flat surface you can clamp to, a front vise, and a pop up plane stop. I use drywall screws to secure small plywood fixtures like shooting boards and such, but even those are pretty minimalist affairs.

I've seen some off-the-wall bench designs proposed in here at one time or another, and I really start to feel for some of the beginners in here when they seem to genuinely believe that their bench design really needs to have (at least) one tail vise, a twin-screw vise, a shoulder vise, and maybe a pattern-maker's vise. But all you really need is a way to hold the work. Roubo was a master craftsman, without such a fancy mechanical bench.

(note: some of us would rightly consider a good roubo-style bench to be a fancy, wonderful thing. But I tend to believe that in the days when they were dragging the logs in and pit-sawing them up, sawing thicker planks for bench tops saved some poor sawyer a lot of work. It was certainly much less hi-tech than slicing, jointing, and laminating to imitate a quarter-sawn slab.)

You don't need to have a shop that looks like it should be in the glossy pages.

I hear what you're saying Denis, I really do. There's something to be said for expediency when it comes to setting up shop, and getting your tools ready. My own perspective is kinda skewed. North Bennet Has Spoiled me.

Once my "professional" shop space is settled, and my basement is cleaned out, I plan on trying to prove, to myself, and to some poor publisher, that this isn't all nonsense. The plan is to embark on a series of articles, or a book, documenting the steps I would take, knowing what I know now, if I were to become an upstart woodworker on a shoestring budget. There are a lot of people who have more time than money, and there are a lot of people who have a fairly even distribution of both.

After 2 years of School, I have to believe it's possible to start small, and start simple. Minimal tools, minimal budget, and a fair bit of work, and at least a serious attempt at creative thinking.

And after 3 years in woodworking retail (for 2 different companies), I have to believe there's a better way than some of the stuff that has been sold to the general public.

Old planes are usually far superior to any of the budget or contractor grade bailey clones that are out there now. And they're usually cheaper, too. Anodized wonder-widgets have been promising superior results to novices for a while now, and I have to wonder who's kidding who. And I think some of the jigs that are out there has taken a lot of the thought, sweat, and tears out of learning some very valid techniques that used to be, and can easily be done by hand, if you're willing to learn.

There's a wealth of information and opinions to be had for the asking, but it's dangerous, and never-ending. To take another random example, I don't think it takes a dissertation on Oil stones, v Water stones v man-made v natural v diamond paste, in conjunction with a metallurgical analysis, to understand why your chisels aren't cutting like they should. Some of these conversations are academic to the point of being almost arcane. That's not to say that the information isn't valid, or that it's not worth pursuing if it's your thing. Progress comes from such investigations. But it has to be daunting for some poor guy who's still trying to pay the rent to decide between Norton and Shapton and cast iron lapping plates with diamond paste.

Old tools. Simple equipment. Time, attention, and a clear and open mind. I think these things are more important, even if they don't make for good copy.

Easy for me to say?

Well, we'll see.

Good night all.

Re: Looking back, and advice to new guys.

#21

Elixir

Warren in Lancaster, PA

>Thanks, Dean, your post along with James comments has me feeling young again. I cannot identify the flaws. Perhaps in yet another five years I will see things differently.

Re: Looking back, and advice to new guys.

#22

Re: Sweethearts, and the first wisps of a manifest

Denis Ch�nard, Orl�ans, Ont.

>James,

I started writing a long-winded reply then decided against it so as not to drag this discussion endlessly...

In a nutshell, if you're saying that one doesn't need new shiny tools to do good work, I will agree to a good extent.

If you are saying to forget all new tools altogether, and that old tools are as good, I will differ strongly. True, there's lots of hype out there, and many new tools and gizmos aren't worth spending money on. But there are tools out there that are genuine improvements over what was done before, and those tools would be beneficial to anyone, including beginners. And there are also a bunch of old tools that are dogs, and the fact that one can buy them today in very good condition is often a testimony to their crankiness/uselessness (Read Pat Leach's description of the Stanley 55 for a good laugh). The trick is to separate the wheat from the chaff (is that how the expression goes?).

So if I were to offer advice it would be something like this:

Core set of tools. Buy the best you can afford, otherwise you will upgrade eventually (i.e. cry only once). Do not buy anything that you don't have an immediate need for. Old or new tools, the choice should reflect the time vs. money balance. Learn to saw, and most important learn to sharpen. And practice, practice, practice.

Of course, I did not follow most of my own advice :-)

Take care,

DC

Re: Looking back, and advice to new guys.

#23

Re: Sweethearts, and the first wisps of a manifest

James Watriss

>Yeah, I was up a bit too late, I'm afraid.

Re: Looking back, and advice to new guys.

#24

Re: Tools that work for us.

Charles

>It is remarkable how modest a tool you need to remove wood or make the relatively benign saw cuts required for furnituremaking.

One has hit stride when they simply pick up a tool and do the work without dwelling, too much at least, on the tool itself. They need to be clean so as not to leave outright dirt and other markings on the stock and they need to be kept sharp.

Absent a collection of moulding planes, a hand woodworker doesn't really need anything beyond what would fit in a decent tool chest. Excess breeds more confusion than it does craftsmanship.

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