dovetailing: sawing half pins

Re: dovetailing: sawing half pins

ThomD

>Going for it with a saw is just faster and gives quality results.

I do it both ways since some woods don't saw that well. With a super sharp chisel, it isn't going to follow the v mark from the gage though it is still a qaulity line.

If you don't do this kind of stuff every day, give yourself some practice pieces to cut every time you do some DTs. Make sure you are limbered up and making quality cuts, that you are aligned and aiming. Don't just jump into a record piece and botch it up. Listen to your body and make sure you aren't cramped or out of position. A good thing is to pull away from the piece and close your eyes then re-adress the cut and open your eyes. if your saw or chisel is all out of position, then you know you have some work to do before you cut. Once you are warmed up do some cuts with your eyes closed. If the saw isn't droping like a sack of wet sand you still have some tightness.

Clarification

Wiley Horne--So. Calif.

>John,

I ask this because of a similar posting on SAPFM. Are you talking about sawing the half pins? Or about sawing the half pin sockets on the tails board?

Wiley

What ever way works best for you...

Scott Burr in Ben Lomond CA

>Striving for the line is the intended purpose for quickness in getting them done. Seeing how I'm generaly in no rush to complete a project I leave the line and pare the DT's to fit. That way my joints coming out looking realy good (for the most part). If you blow the line you've bolwn the DT and most of the time the piece your working on.

Re: What ever way works best for you...

David Charlesworth

>John,

I have demonstrated and explained a great deal about paring with a sharp chisel on my latest dvd. This uses a single lap dovetail (half blind) as the vehicle, as well as showing a method for tennon shoulders and Bob Wearing's hand morticing technique.

It's all very well for those who can saw well to say go for the line, but I find that a good result can be got by paring.

It is slower, and I'm quite sure many will take issue with the approach, but it works.

Amateurs do not always have the sawing skills of a 19th century craftsman who was paid on piece work.

best wishes,

David Charlesworth www.davidcharlesworth.co.uk

Re: Clarification

John Hoffman

>Sorry, that is my post over there. Didn't see much activity on that forum...anyway sawing the sockets on the tail board.

John

Re: What ever way works best for you...

John Hoffman

>Thanks and I will get your dvd soon!

John

Sockets on tail board--an option *LINK*

Wiley Horne--So. Calif.

>John,

Thanks for the clarification! Those little end sockets are scary.

Here's an option....You can treat this as part of paring to the scribe line. I use a paring block, so that all the sockets are pared to the same line, and plumb (see link below).

The paring block gets around the problem of putting your chisel right in the scribe line, having it back up a hair on you, and ending up with too deep of a socket. This is mainly noticeable on halfblind dovetails, IME.

The paring block is about 2" square in cross-section--has to be dead square and straight. It slides up and down on bolts which rise up out of a bottom plate. Bottom plate is secured by a cleat (in the end vise), or just clamped down. I position the block over the tails board, so that the chisel hits shy of the scribe line by about a shaving thickness.

What I have found is that if the scribe line is crisp, then everything else will be good off the saw, with practice.

Wiley


Paring block

Re: Sockets on tail board--an option

John Hoffman

>Wiley, thanks I saw your pics on SAPFM forum. That is a great way to go.

Regards

John

Re: dovetailing: sawing half pins

Derek Cohen (in Perth, Australia)

>I recall that Adam saws to the line i.e. goes for it, but I have been sawing close to the line and working to it with a chisel. Is this going to enter more error into the equation? Is it better to open a v groove where the marking gauge line is for the saw to drop in?

What works for me is to cut the tails first, then scribe the pins with a very sharp and thin line. This line has two advantages for me. The first is that I cut against it. It is so thin that the concept of "splitting the line" is automatic. Secondly, my sawing is sometimes accurate enough and sometimes not. When it is not, the fine line acts as a clear target for paring the final vestage, and the line is where I place the chisel.

This very fine knife line is quite different from those who advocate a blunt knife to create a wider line. If I am marking hardwood, then I will not make an impression with a blunt marking knife. And if the line threatens to be too fine to be seen, then either use better light and/or rub a little chalk over it.

I would say that "opening a V groove" is a good strategy for cutting against the line. Just that it is not always practical for tiny bits of endgrain.

Regards from Perth

Derek

Re: What ever way works best for you...

dave brown

>Wise words David.

I also wonder if 18th century craftsman worked in batches to improve their efficiency and quality. If you're making a six drawer chest . . . estimate five dovetails per corner . . . four corners per . . . that's roughly 120 dovetails -- just for the drawers. There's nothing like repetition to make you good at something. Also, craftsmen don't appear to have been as obsessed with light-tight joints as we are nowadays. ;-)

What I do

Dan Donaldson

>Assuming we are talking about the little half pin to be removed at the ends of the tail board:

I take a chisel and set it in the guage line, then take a small chip out with the taper toward the waste. This gives me a nice groove to set the waw into that is registered on the guage line. Then I saw it off.

Re: What ever way works best for you...

David Charlesworth

>Dave,

I'm sure all those points are true. We seem to have become somewhat obsessive today and I have a bad case of the perfectionist disease.

A nice old, bow front, Cuban Mahogany veneered chest of drawers here has sawn planks nailed in for the back.

best wishes,

David

Re: What ever way works best for you...

Dean J in MN

>I like to remember the wise quote:

"The perfect is the enemy of the good"

-Voltaire

-Dean

Nice quote Dean

Frank D. in Montreal

>

Anti-Perfection

John Hoffman

>I agree with that! Maybe because I don't have enough years left to pull the bow string to perfection before I place an arrow in it, like my Zen brethren. This project is moving forward and will be an accurate representation of my skills at this time. Fortunately for me, I have some dexterity and a thick skin!!!!

Best regards to all

John H

Re: dovetailing: sawing half pins

labolle

>Here is a link you may find useful for a picture tutorial of how I go about doing my dovetails without bothering with pre-scribing or setting out layout lines. It saves a lot of time once you get the hang of it. The link shows how to do it with a mitered edge at the ends of the joint.

Re: dovetailing: sawing half pins *LINK*

labolle

>This is a link to a picture tutorial on how to hand cut dovetails without the unecessary step of laying out lines before you start. The joint has a mitered edge at the top and bottom of the joint and is quick and easy once you master the basic saw techniques.

I hope it is useful to someone. Let me know if it helps at all.

Labolle.


http://www.woodworkforums.ubeaut.com.au/showthread.php?t=50670