Japanese vs. Western Style Smoothers

Re: Japanese vs. Western Style Smoothers

wilbur

>I think that you can get comparable results with either. Japanese planes traditionally are bedded at a lower angle (40 degrees) than Western planes (45 degrees), although many of the Jpanese planes being sold to the U.S. have 45 degree blade angles. This is probably because most woodworking in Japan has traditionally been done with softwoods, whereas hardwoods were used more frequently in the West.

I think that sharpening a Japanese plane blade is easier than a Western style plane blade. Since Japanese plane blades are much thicker than Western style plane blades, including the Lie-Nielsen and Hock blades, they have a big honking bevel, which makes it easier to maintain contact on a sharpening stone. Although this observation is probably is more a reflection of my crappy sharpening skills.

Overall, you'll do fine with either, and any difference in performance is probably due to the setup of the plane itself, and not the Japanese vs. Western thing.

Re: Japanese vs. Western Style Smoothers

Warren in Lancaster, PA

>Steven, I think that with whichever plane you have you can get a wonderful surface. If you are not getting a surface so fine that it would make you sick to spoil it with the finest sandpaper or scraper, you probably have not exausted the possibilities. I have it in my mind that a wooden soled plane (either type) gives a slightly more lustrous surface, but I would not want to have to judge the difference if presented with two samples.

Re: Japanese vs. Western Style Smoothers

Pam Niedermayer - Austin, TX

>My Japanese smoothers provide a lustrous look, probably from burnishing that takes place when wood meets wood, but also from taking extremely fine shavings. Of course, they have to be tuned properly, but I've found that blade setting is almost dictated by the smoother itself, there is a very small range of settings that will take a shaving at all without chattering.

I never got that result with a metal anything, even an LN LA Jack that I love and used as a smoother, as well as jack and jointer (I know, it's not supposed to be a great smoother, but it did produce the best surface of all metal planes I tried). As far as western planes, the closest I ever came to such a finish was with the ECE Primus adjustable smoother, but it still didn't produce the sheen; so I suspect the thick blade is also very important.

Pam

Sheen

jim reed @ tallahassee

>I have a euro style plane with a lignum sole that seems to leave a sheen. Maybe you are correct with your wood burnishing theory.

Re: Japanese vs. Western Style Smoothers

ThomD

>I think a lot of it has to do with the intention. You may be able to get a western plane to cut like a Japanese one, but the real issues is that in trad Japanese culture they actually left the surface of finished objects "unfinished". Western technology in the 19th century was generally more advanced than Japanese, they just prefered to mold and paint their window trim (for instance) rather than to leave it flat and plane polished.

I don't agree that traditional Japanese planes are bedded at lower angles we just seem to prefer Japanese tools designed for softwood, rather than cabinetry. I have been studying everything I could find in Japanese carpentry for nearly 30 years. I have yet to see a single article on making cabinetry. Theyt work hardwoods also, but we don't seeem to get that side of it.

Japanese blades are thicker than western but sharpening is taken to a far greater extreme in that culture. People are applying that stuff to western tools to some extent, but overall shapening is routinely taken to an extreme that only rarely occurs in the west. And it takes a long time to learn those skills.

Japanese planes can also be moved faster than is intended with western planes. This leaves a finer surface, if you can control the speed.

Overall I think one needs to look at how the plane will be used in one's work. I use planes more for the strps leading up to final finishing than final finishing. It rarely occurs that I use the super quality surface from a plane. I wouldn't choose my planes based on that use. That's even true of finishing planes. A finishing plane that has minmal downtime in the shop and perectly preps for final sanding is more useful than one that super finishes and stands out against molding or curved surfaces.