Drawer Construction

Re: Drawer Construction

Stephen in Utah

>The lip on the top edge can be shot with a molding plane, the tricky part is the end grain, molding planes don't work well on end grain. However the ubiquitous scratch stock can be made to scratch the corresponding molding on end grain.

The cutter of the scratchstock is sharpened straight across to the exact profile of the molding. It is then positioned in the scratch stock and the end grain profile is made with repeated strokes.

I hope that answers your question.

Stephen Shepherd

Re: Drawer Construction

Roderick Drumgoole

>Stephen,

Thanks for responding, however if you are referring to the "molding plane" on the edge, I understand if you mean the fingernail profile.

In my original post, I am referring to the rabbet on the top and the two sides; that's where I need help in how to construct the lip.

Roderick

Re: Drawer Construction

Dean J in MN

>The lip (or rabbet as you said) is cut with a rabbet plane. A skew rabbet is nice on the cross-grain, but any will work in a pinch. The thumbnail is shot with a molding plane and/or scratch stock. If you are lacking the correct profile plane/scratch stock I've also just cut a shallow rabbet and used a rasp and file to finish the thumbnail.

-Dean

Re: Drawer Construction

Stephen in Utah

>Shoot or scrape the molding then using a moving filletster plane with a fixed fence and nicking spur and make the rebate. Crosscutting with a saw on endgrain can help but a sharp nicker will also do the trick. Do the endgrain first then shoot with the grain to reduce spliting out at the end.

I have seen thumbnail sash planes that cut both the molding and a rebate, that would work with the grain.

Stephen

Use a saw

Jim Reed @ Tallahassee

>If I were going totally neander here and had to put a rabbet on the side (end grain) of a drawer, I would use a backsaw. Carefully saw to depth for each face. Leave about 1/16" for your skew plane to clean up. Sawing is the best way for dados. Works well until they are longer than the saw--then it gets tricky. Good luck.

When it is longer than the saw...

Stephen in Utah

>I use a straight edge clamped on the piece. This allows the cut to be made longer than the length of the saw. The straight edge is just a straight board, I do not use lay out straight edges for sawing or planing fences, I use them just for checking and marking straight edges.

Stephen

Lip? Can you point me to a photo?

Pam Niedermayer - Austin, TX

>

Re: Lip? Can you point me to a photo?  *LINK*

Stephen in Utah

>


lip(s)

How patriarchal of you.

Pam Niedermayer - Austin, TX

>

Re: Use a saw

Dean J in MN

>Sawing is the best way for dados

Given the choice, I'd pick a dado plane over saw and chisel every time. Cut the dado and set your gauge with your dado plane to mark out the joining piece. (Not that you can't do that same thing if you mark your dado width and set your gauge with the same chisel you will clean out the waste in the saw and chisel method.).

-Dean

Re: Lip? Can you point me to a photo? *LINK*

Wiley Horne--So. Cal.

>Pam,

You've seen a zillion of 'em. The door doesn't close flush with the frame; it laps onto it. The 'lip' is the part that laps, if you will. It has a molded detail, sometimes just a roundover, or perhaps a thumbnail or similar. The backside edge is rebated. See photo attached.

Wiley


Lipped door, courtesy of Rockler

Re: Use a saw

jim reed @ tallahassee

>I would also use a dado plane if I were making a dado. The post was about a cross grained open rabbet. Two saw cuts at 90 degrees.

Re: Use a saw

mikew

>Yep, that's what it was about...but like most conversations, it drifted.

The use of a moving fillister can be quicker than sawing and so it is my preference. But I have sawn and then cleaned up with the MF if the scale is relatively small. The skewed blade and nicker make for a clean cross-grain cut.

In either method, the fence and depth stop on the MF make for a good repeatable result.

Take care, Mike

Eighteenth Century

Warren in Lancaster, PA

>I also use a moving fillister for this work, but I plane on the end grain- no need for a spur. My kitchen cabinets have rebates that go back 13/16 from the sides to hide those ugly runners, but in the eighteenth century 3/16 was more the norm. Just enough to cover the opening. So you are only planing 3/16 deep and 9/16 or so wide. It just doesn't make any sense to plane cross grain where you would have to make a rabbet 9/16 deep and just 3/16 wide. I think planing on the end grain leaves the nicest surfaces; you want a nice clean surface to mark out the dovetails and it is harder to do any cleaning up after the drawer is together because of the lip.

I just looked at a couple of 18th century examples in my shop. There is no evidence of any sawing or any crossgrain spur although it is possible that the surfaces were cleaned up with a paring chisel instead of a fillister plane.

Re: Use a saw

Roderick Drumgoole

>Mike & All,

When I use a MF for the sides (end grain), will I need to be conerned with edge tear?

Roderick

Re: Eighteenth Century

mikew

>Hi Warren--what I know about 18th century construction norms wouldn't fill the proverbial thimble--or an actual one!

I too have gone straight down into the end-grain at times. Guess it depends on my mood as I don't think there was conscious ryhme nor reason for me to do so. In the dimensions you gave, it would be the easiest more assured method.

Thanks! Mike

Re: Use a saw

mikew

>Hi Roderick,

Just do the cross-grain work first as a matter of course. Most any break-out will be removed when doing the long-grain work.

Warren would be the better one to comment on this, but I suspect knifing or using a cutting guage first would minimize any break out from running off into the lip itself if doing from the edge as he suggests. Because I don't typically use that method I am unsure what the effect or potential effect of doing it thatta way.

And...make sure to practice a little on some scrap...

Take care, Mike

Edge tear

Warren in Lancaster, PA

>You will want to put a small chamfer at the corner of the drawer to keep form splitting out as you plane the end grain. This chamfer should extend along the corner from the drawer back to where the lip starts. The chamfer will be planed away at the top when you later make the rabbet at the top, but will show a small amount at the bottom unless you start with the drawer front a little too wide and then plane off the bottom after making the side rabbets.

I want to thank you for asking this question, because for the first time I noticed the tiny chamfer on one of my 18th century examples, showing that they planed the rabbet on the end grain as well. It makes you smile to find evidence of one of your methods on something 250 years old.

I don't get it

Adam Cherubini, NJ

>I don't get the chamfer Warren. How about a picture or drawing or something.

I have only made a few of these. My approach may have been all wrong. I sawed the cross grain (let's call it a fillester for lack of a better term) and planed the rabbet.

When making raised panels, I've stacked them all edge to edge and used the MF on the lot. Can't see why that wouldn't work here if several drawer fronts were to be made.

I can only think of one reason why one would chose to plane the end grain instead of across the grain. If the shoulder or lip were critical, then MF's fence would be more accurate than its depth stop. Otherwise, I personally find planing end grain more difficult than planing any other sort and I wouldn't recommend this approach to anyone who is not Warren!

I have more of these drawers to make in the not so distant future so I too appreciate this thread. Thanks Roderick!

Adam

I think that Roderick may be asking for

Andrew F in Australia

>details on how to cut the rebate (US rabbet) that holds the cockbead (correct term cocked bead.)

However, I may be wrong.

Could you let us know if this is what you're looking for please, Roderick?

Cockbeads?

Roderick Drumgoole

>Andrew,

Unfortunately, you are incorrect in surmising that I was referring to cockbeads which by the way is an entirely different technique that I will be inquiring about for the next set of drawers. I think that Mike, Warren, and others have been quite helpful in their recommendations as they seem fairly clear on my original post.

Roderick

Re: I don't get it

Warren in Lancaster, PA

>I plane on the end grain because the rabbet I want is wider (9/16) and more shallow (3/16) from that direction. If I plane crossgrain, I have a deep (9/16) and narrow (3/16) rabbet to make which is more work and leaves a less refined surface both in back of the lip and on the surface I am going to dovetail.

When I plane the endgrain there is a great danger of splitting out as the plane finishes its cut. I solve this problem by making a slight chamfer at the end of the cut so that the last fibers cut by the plane are supported by the chamfer. This chamfer is 9/16 long on the corner and about 1/8 wide. Since the chamfer tends to disappear as the rabbet deepens, I sometimes renew it as I cut the rabbet. I don't take the chamfer all the way to the front of the drawer because I don't want to mess up the molding corner.

When I make the rabbet for the left side of the drawer, I plane from the bottom of the drawer toward the top of the drawer, so that chamfer (at the top) will disappear when I later make the rabbet on the top edge. However when I do the right side of the drawer the chamfer is made at the bottom corner and remains somewhat visible because there is no rabbet on the botom edge. It is this small chamfer that I noticed on the old drawer front for the first time today, on the right side only, indicating that it was done the same way. (This is the first time I looked for it.)

I don't have the means to send a picture so I hope this is helpful. There are probably others besides you, Adam, who did not follow my posts.

Re: I don't get it

Roderick Drumgoole

>Warren,

This is great information, much more than I was expecting. Just out of curiosity, what type of plane do you use for end grain?

Roderick

Planing end grain

Warren in Lancaster, PA

>For planing these end grain rabbets I use a Stanley 78 plane. I have tried a wooden moving fillester and I like them better for comfort, but I don't have one. The 78 plane is rough on the hands (crampy) in prolonged use both because it is so short and has a poor front grip.

For plain end grain I use a Bailey type plane. I haven't used a block plane at all for about 30 years.