Maintaining Water Stones

I'm curious...

Scott Burr in Ben Lomond CA

>What kind of water stones are you using? Thanks for sharing this info!

I'm curious, too

Ellis Walentine

>I'm no chemist, so this is probably a dumb question, but why doesn't the isopropyl alcohol evaporate from the water mix? Is it strictly because you keep the lid on to keep the vapor equilibrium in the container?

I'd like to try this, because my stones take an algae beating every summer and a freezing beating every winter. The iso might be a decent anti-freeze as well.

Ellis Walentine, Host

Re: Maintaining Water Stones

Bill Sams

>I've been using straight clorox from the grocery store to keep my stones clean. Just a capful per 16 ounces of water seems to do the trick.

Haven't tried the alchohol, but sounds good.

some other approaches

Michael Stadulis, in Gloucester County, NJ

>I think I read somewhere that willow twigs placed in the waterstone water exude some chemical that controls algae too. Chances are that you can successfully use Bacardi 151 too.

-Mike

explanation

Bill Tindal, E.TN

>The concentration of isopropanol in the vapor (the stuff evaporating from the liquid) is determined by the concentration of isopropanol in the liquid and the relative boiling points of the two liquids (and ofter some other factors). While the boiling point of isopropanol is 82 degrees vs 100 for water, the concentration in the liquid is less than 100%. The vapor leaving the liquid will not simply be pure low boiling component, but a mixture. Bottom line:I would not be surprised if the concentration of the isopropanol in the vapor was only somewhat enriched in isopropanol above its concentration in the liquid. So the composition of what is left behind will be only somewhat enriched in water. The last drop of liquid to evaporate will still have some isopropanol in it.

This situation is fortunate. Gasoline has a significant amount of butane dissolved in it, a vapor at normal temperatures if it was pure butane. It is this very volatile butane and pentane that enables you to start your car on a cold day when the higher boiling components would not be sufficiently volatile to do the job.

Re: Maintaining Water Stones

ThomD

>Is it good to spend a lot of time in a Isopropyl solution? I remember being warened about too much anti bacterial use by a nurse on the grounds it wipped out stuff that is good for the skin as well as otherwise. We have doctors here so maybe we can hear about how good this stuff is for us on a variety of levels.

I just change the water. It just seems like polution. I place the stones in a bucket and dump the bucket out regularly to keep the sediments down also.

I used to use a few drops of bleach, it takes very little to keep the water clean, but overall fresh water won out in my shop, and I don't have water in the shop.

bleach is an antibiotic, too.

Bruce, a MN Galoot

>

You might try...

Stephen in Utah

>Get a fresh stick of willow and remove the outer bark. Place it in the water and it will prevent anything from growing. It contains salicylic acid, or you can drop in an aspirin.

As for the freezing part, alcohol works if stoppered tight. Sugar works but attracts growth. The stick of willow would make it easier to remove the frozen block of water.

Stephen

Maybe algae doesn't like aspirin?

Ian Smith (Sydney Australia)

>The bark of the willow tree contains salicylic acid which is chemically similar to the active ingredient of aspirin. I believe salicylic acid is used as a preservative and an antiseptic.

Maybe you should just throw an aspirin into your waterstone containers and if algae persists see your doctor.

Regards,

Ian.

Re: I'm curious...

Bob Haines

>I use King & norton water stones from 220 - 8000 grit.

Bob

Someone call a doctor?

wilbur

>The issue with antibacterial cleaners are twofold. First, the agent that is commonly used in liquid soap is Triclosan, which is designed to stick to your skin, which is why it is a useful agent for the prevention of contamination by skin contact. I don't know about you, but I try to avoid having chemicals stick to my skin if I can avoid it. It certainly is useful when I'm at work, but I don't need it in my house. As an aside, there are now measurable levels of Triclosan in freshwater lakes as a result of the ubiquitous use of Triclosan. If you don't believe me, got to the store and try to find a liquid soap that doesn't have Triclosan in it.

The second issue is that normal skin bacteria do serve a purpose. They prevent the growth of bugs that aren't good for your skin, like fungus. One of the reasons that a well maintained lawn has few weeds is that the grass grow thickly enough that the weeds can't take hold. Using antibacterial agents on your skin is like spraying your lawn with Roundup. So killing normal skin bacterial does have its downside.

Having said all that, the brief time of contact with the isopropyl alcohol/bleach in your waterstone bucket probably isn't going to affect anything. Isopropyl alcohol and bleach don't stick to your skin, and to my knowledge, no one here is scrubbing their hands in the waterstone bucket solution. You are much better off checking the soap dispensers in your bathrooms and kitchens.

Ph?

Bill Houghton, Sebastopol, CA

>I don't know enough about algae to know how affected the various algae species are by water acidity, but presumably increasing the acidity of the water would discourage growth.

I find it hard to believe that willow or any other twig puts out something that resists algae - seems like, if they did, you'd find willow branches unrotted in streams everywhere.

Algae

Bill Tindal, E.TN

>If indeed the problem is algae all one would have to do is keep the container dark. Alga won't grow in the dark. But mold will , and bacteria. I would kill algae in my pond by adding a bit of copper sulfate, which is readily available and copper sulfate will kill a great many bacteria too. I treat my sheep for foot rot with it.

I'm not buying the willow twigs either. The chlorox and isopropanol seem like excellent solutions to me.

Re: Someone call a doctor?

ThomD

>Thanks!

I still worry. When I am sharpening there really isn't very much time when my hands aren't wet with whatever is in the bucket. The stones are wet, the lower region of the tools is wet. I'm switching between stones, and I'm lapping one stone with the other, rinsing the stones off in the water after laping, cleaning the coarser grits off one tool befor going on to the next. So, water pressure aside I might as well be submerging my hands in the stuff. I do use a spray bottle to give my hands a bit of a break.

This could be part of the difference. There is a drier method. Some are probably using their LV Stone Pond, their jig, etc... and are not getting a lot of "water" on their hands, not to mention the ubiquitous rubber glove. So you don't go through the water much, one worries about stagnations so one uses whatever will keep the water clean.

I've tried most methods, and find I get good results with just plain water, and I don't have to ask myself about what I am flushing down the drain, it's just well water.

Re: bleach is an antibiotic, too.

ThomD

>So true, which is why I don't use it either any more. Still, there appear to be concentrations of it that keep the algae at bay, and that are below the recomended doses for purifying water for drinking. Conversely I don't think I will drink water that is 15% Isopropyl.

LOML tells me Ivory liquid is without triclosan

Bill Houghton, Sebastopol, CA

>

Re: Someone call a doctor?

wilbur

>What you could do is keep your waterstones in the bucket with the bug-killing solution in it, and when it's time to sharpen, rinse the waterstones with fresh water, and transfer them to a second bucket that has fresh water in it. Then, when you're done, stick the waterstones back into the bucket of microbial death.

Re: LOML tells me Ivory liquid is without triclosa

Pam Niedermayer - Austin, TX

>It's actually hard to tell what's in the new Ivory liquid, no ingredients listed on the bottle, and certainly no hint on the P&G obscure-this-info-at-all-costs website. She certainly was correct when Ivory was made from soap.

Pam

Re: LOML tells me Ivory liquid is without triclosa

wilbur

>If a product has triclosan in it, the package must state that it is one of the active ingredients. So if Ivory doesn't list triclosan as an ingredient, it doesn't have it.

Of course, the ease of finding the triclosan labeling is a completely different issue.

I prefer my water mixed with

Bruce, a MN Galoot

>about 50% ethanol aged in oak casks.

I don't remember what the bleach concentration is that will keep nasties like giardia at bay, but it's not very high at all. Just about the level that you don't want to drink it, unless you're on a long hike and can't carry enough water for the whole trip.

Bruce

Re: Someone call a doctor?

ThomD

>Might work.

Other than the few seconds it takes to get the stone saturated that methods would probably cost me space, and be no more effective on the sharpening or guck control bases than just using fresh water.

Overall this thread is convincing me that there are probably environmental upticks to just using the table saw... Too bad I sold it.

Re: LOML tells me Ivory liquid is without triclosa

Pam Niedermayer - Austin, TX

>The label states it contains "anionic and nonionic surfactants and no phosphates," no claims about 99.44% pure anymore. I appreciate the lack of phosphates, so guess I'll continue using it.

Thanks, Wilbur.

Pam

Re: I prefer my water mixed with

ThomD

>Sound plan of the ethanol. Of course then I would want to make my own casks, and the whole thing would drag on, and I would be back to the issue of how much poison to keep my stone ponds as clean as a "chrystal spring". :)

Re: Someone call a doctor?

Paul Kierstead

>I fail to see how your tablesaw could hold your water stones.