Wood guy smacks hot metal -- lives to tell

Re: Another angle 

Dave Mount, NE Minnesota

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Re: From whence it came. . .

Dave Mount, NE Minnesota

>The starting point for the adze was a 4" chunk of 1" x 1" O1 tool steel as shown in the pic. This stuff is tough to forge -- at a yellow heat it doesn't move under a hammer a whole lot more than mild steel does dead cold (OK, a little exaggeration, but not much!). The initial shaping was done swinging a 16 lb hammer, the wrist for which I have not fully developed. The smith I'm working under is a much smaller guy than I, but he can swing that hammer twice as hard and four times as long as I can before I get noodle wrist. . .

Re: Wood guy smacks hot metal -- lives to tell

mikew

>Way cool, Dave!

I'm simply amazed and in awe of blacksmiths. Well done.

Take care, Mike

Re: Wood guy smacks hot metal -- lives to tell

Todd O. Cronkhite Maine Native, Presently Away

>By Goodness Dave, that don't look to shabby at all. I can see where the blade comes to close to eye, but hey, it's your first one. Well done I say, and make sure to post pics when it's completed. I think you made a smart choice taking the 1 for 1 deal, as you'll also be learning blacksmithing in other areas.

What kind of forge was you using? Handcranker? What kind of coal? What was you using as a quencher? Oil? Brine? Dead rats? ;~)

T.O.

welcome to the addiction

r payne

>I too work both hot metal and wood. Well as soon as I get the wood shop back up i will.

So far most of my blacksmithing has been knives

16 lb Hammer !?

Todd Hughes

>Are you saying you used a 16lb. hammer one handed to forge this out?.....That I would like to see! I don't think I ever seen even an experanced 'smith work with a hammer bigger then 4 1/2lbs or so. I used mostly a 4lb one...but 16lbs!....better put that sledge hammer on a scale John Henry ! ......Todd

Re: It's true

Dave Mount, NE Minnesota

>I obviously don't have the background to speak to whether it is common or good practice, but 16# is what it is. I was hitting a top fuller with it, not the actual workpiece, but I did use it directly on the work when I was making the drift for the eye (from an old drive shaft).

The hammer is of a different shape than most, a very short, wide, square body and a cross pein. He (my mentor) has it on a pretty short handle (shorter than a standard carpentry hammer), as most of his hammers are. He basically doesn't use any sledge hammers (or whatever the correct term is for 2-handed hammers with long, like 36", handles), says he gets better control with one hand. I often use it two handed anyway because I just don't have the wrist to swing it very long one handed. I can see an argument being made that getting the same force by swinging a lighter hammer faster would be easier on you. If I think of it, I'll take a pic of it.

The book I took that adze pattern from, "Tool Making for Woodworkers" by Ray Larsen shows the author swinging an 8 lb hammer(noted as such in the text) one handed to fuller the blank.

I guess that's a risk of having one teacher, you only learn one way. . .

Best,

Dave

Re: Back at ya Mike

Dave Mount, NE Minnesota

>Evening Mike--

A skilled smith (as in not me) is a wonder, I agree. . .but I'm pretty impressed by sawmakers.

Thanks.

Dave, saving his pennies for a small Wenzeloff cross-cut saw

Re: forging and quenching

Dave Mount, NE Minnesota

>Hey Todd--

The adze hasn't been quenched yet -- it was annealed in sifted wood ash to prep it for grinding. Being O1, it'll get hardened in the oil quench.

This smith doesn't use coal, he uses hardwood charcoal he makes himself (he's something of a scrounger). For my home forge, I just buy "Cowboy charcoal" at Menard's (it's real charcoal, not the manufactured Kingsford briquet type). I don't have experience forging with coal, but I have to say that forging with charcoal is pretty easy, there's not much to fire management, you just pile more on when you need it. His forges are all hand cranked blowers; I like them, they give you a lot of control, but I don't have one, so I used an old squirrel cage blower from a dismembered woodburning furnace. It has a louver to cut the airflow down, but I need to rig it up to a deadman foot switch so that it goes off when I turn away from the forge -- you burn a lot of charcoal otherwise. I've heard coal forging advocates say you can't get charcoal hot enough, but I've forge welded with it which makes it hot enough in my book. . .you can even burn steel with it (DAMHIKT).

More pics soon. I have another WW tool nearing completion which I'll post when I finish.

Best,

Dave

Re: welcome to the addiction

Dave Mount, NE Minnesota

>I made a kitchen knife from an old file during the intermediate course as an exercise in forge welding high carbon. It came out OK, but I had a couple bad spots in the billeting welds (think I'm using that term correctly) that produced flaws in the finished blade. Was interesting though and the finished product took a good edge.

Best,

Dave

Re: Wood guy smacks hot metal -- lives to tell

Frank D. in Montreal

>Wow,

That's a very interesting post Dave, thanks! I was wondering if you could provide just a little more detail on how you formed the eye? I'm planning on setting up a forge in my backyard this spring.

You are my new hero!

jim reed @ tallahassee

>Good show!

Re: Wood guy smacks hot metal -- lives to tell

jared

>Hello: Where in NE Mn are you and where was the course that you took? We live in NW Ia but spend a lot of time north of Duluth near Gooseberry Falls SP. In fact my wife and I are leaving soon today to drive up there to move one step further on replacing our deteriorating trailer with a more modern cabin. Just curious Jared

Re: Drift *LINK*

Dave Mount, still in the deep freeze

>Morning Frank--

This adze was made following the pattern/instructions in Ray Larsen's "Tool Making for Woodworkers" which may be helpful if you're launching off into this arena. That said, I think it would be hard to replace the opportunity to work with someone experienced.

In this pattern, the eye starts as two 3/8" holes drilled along the long axis of the blank (4" x 1" x 1"), 3/8" apart (i.e., they touch on the tangent). This figure 8 shaped hole is expanded using a "drift", which is a tapered piece of metal that has the cross-sectional shape you desire. Annealed medium or high carbon steel is recommended to get some durability. I made mine out of a piece of drive shaft about 1-1/4" in diameter and pounded it down to make a target size of about 5/8" x 3/4", then annealed it by cooling it in sifted wood ashes. Then I cleaned it up with the grinder to smooth it out and create the taper (as the guy I'm working with says, "forge fat, grind thin"). Larsen gives some brief instructions in his book, I think he recommended a taper of 1/32" per inch; it's not really that fussy, just a guideline to follow. I also shaped the end to something of a blunt chisel shape. With drift in hand, you just get a good heat on the blank, position it over the hardy or pritchel hole depending on the size of what you're doing, and drive the drift through to the depth/size you want (the initial piercing took more than one heat -- that O1 is tough stuff). You want to work quickly and not leave the piece on the drift for long, because you are simultaneously cooling the adze and heating the drift, which could cause the adze to seize on the drift (a shrinking hole around and expanding drift). You also drive the eye from the other side with the intent of making an hourglass shaped eye, so when you wedge the handle it will stay put.

The smith I'm working with is big into making tools rather than buying them (he had me make the 1" flat tongs I used to hold the piece as well), but I know there's a guy on Ebay that sells drifts (link below) -- don't know anything more about them and I have no affiliation. I just made up the size for mine, figuring I'd be making a handle to fit anyway, so staying to standard sizes didn't concern me. However, in retrospect, I wish I'd made mine more oval, a little wider in the long dimension, maybe a tad thinner in the other. Live and learn.

There's a discussion board at www.anvilfire.com that's kind of an "ask the expert" type thing, and there are lots of people there willing to give advice to beginners. Go to the anvilfire page and click on "ask the guru."

Good luck with it,

Dave


Link to hammer eye drifts on Ebay

Thanks Dave, very helpful!

Frank D. in Montreal

>

Re: Wood guy smacks hot metal -- lives to tell

MountainMan

>Hi Dave!! Good show on the adze!! it takes a good eye to get things straight - in a drk smithy... I been there-done that - had a ball--had to leave the country for europe - sold all of my stuff - now I regret doing that.. The funniest thing that ever happened was when a new student starting classes - learned to fire up the forge - was hand cranking the blower getting something hot... all of a sudden something flew through the air - carreening off walls and equipment.. everyone was ducking!! when the mystery projectile finally stopped, it turned out to be the guys bik lighter which he had laid on the ledge of the forge hood after lighting the fire!! Ha! We laughed about that for years!!

Regards

The MountainMan

Well Done!

Scott Burr in Ben Lomond CA

>Looks very nice Dave, you done good!

Re: Drift

r payne

>Iforgeiron.com and the ABANA site are also wealths of information. If you're interested in learning more.

ron