Japanning

found the article from Todd

McKay Sleight

>

Re-Japan it...

Scott Burr in Ben Lomond CA

>It's a some what rare plane and doesn't deserve to be powder coated.

You ruin the value of it down the road. Although re-japanning might have the same impact on value.

Re: Re-Japan it...

McKay Sleight

>I care more for feel than value. The value to me is in how well it cuts the rabbet.

I'll think you'll be very pleased.

Scott Burr in Ben Lomond CA

>

Well worth the effort !

s.mackay@worldnet.att.net

>Stuff is tricky to get though.

question

bill tindal, E.TN

>what is the stuff for making planes black? The reason I ask is I know an expert on asphalt chemistry. If someone tells me the name of what is used I'll bet he can provide a source of the stuff or an equivalent.

I think it is some naturally occurring variety of asphalt? To a first approximation this is the same stuff used to pave roads and seal roofs. Anyway, my friend would have some knowledge of what might be equivalent. It could be as simple as substituting roofing asphalt, or maybe not. He will know. The font of expertise on this topic is one of the Universities in Wyoming, but I forget which one. it is near a refinery.

Jappanning Instructions *LINK*

Garrett in Victoria BC

>And an answer tio your question, Bill.

Cheers, Garrett


Japanning

Re: asphaltum

Moses Yoder in White Pigeon, MI

>I would be somewhat interested in trying to mix my own jappannning and do have some old recipes around for such. They all call for asphaltum, which is why I have not gotten past the easy chair stage on such a project. I cannot find asphaltum at the local hardware store ;) I can dig up a recipe I have that was published in the late 1800's but I would be interested in knowing your friends thoughts and sources for asphaltum. I would also be interested in getting these in a deep blue, burgundy, and red colors. Japanning originally referred to the shiny black color that the Japanese used to finish wood and pottery; possibly the same material for both or different materials, I am not sure. I think powder coating would be a viable method of finishing planes in the modern world; if I had a source I would try it.

Buy your asphaltum here *LINK*

Derek Cohen (in Perth, Australia)

>I agree, asphaltum is difficult to locate. I looked all over ...

So, while this is against usual WC policy, here is a link to an ongoing auction on eBay for asphaltum. The seller runs this Buy It ad frequently, and the cost is cheap enough.

My only relationship here is as a buyer - I am presently waiting to take delivery of a small quantity of asphaltum from the seller. This is to be used in a restoration of a #51/52.

Regards from Perth

Derek


ASPHALTUM (Natural Bitumen/Natural Asphalt) Powder

Pontypool *LINK*

Tony Sade (Charleston, WV)

>I've seen lots of recommendations for this stuff and have used it myself on a couple of planes with very nice results. Use it right out of the can. No cooking required. It isn't cheap-$26/qt and the shipping is high, but you should be able to do dozens of planes with a single can. I've given away a bunch to a friend and still think my grandkids will be fighting over what's left when I kick the bucket.


Pontypool from Liberty on the Hudson

Re: Japanning *LINK*

woodburnbob

>I'm pretty sure my comments won't be useful to anyone, but there is a fairly well-documented history to japanning. For instance, the specific type of asphaltum used is called Gilsonite. You can still get it, I think, but a railcar load is the smallest amount. Anyone who is curious about the history might find the last six pics in the link below interesting.

Asphaltum "ground" is still used in printmaking and can be obtained easily from a couple of sources.

One might find it interesting to learn that asphaltum was used quite a bit in 19th century "fine art" painting as a replacement pigment for older "blacks" that came from lamp soot, burnt bones and so forth. It took a some years for owners of those paintings to learn all areas containing asphaltum readily fell of the paintings in sheets. NO ONE in art circles with much sense paints or buys paintings with asphaltum. Even one popular oil paint brand with a color called "Asphaltum" is actually an iron oxide...a kind of dirty-looking, greenish, brownish black.

You might ask yourself why, if old-traditional-japanning was such a great black coating, it is never used today. But as I mentioned, I don't see why any of this would be useful information.


Japanning book

Answers

bill tindal, E.TN

>According to my expert source......

The general name for the stuff for Japanning is asphaltum, with Gilsonite being the name of this material from a particular Western US locality. It is a step along the way of weathering petroleum, ie oxidized oil with all the volatiles gone. It is hard, brittle and soluble in turpentine, and it melts about 100 C. "Synthetic" versions are what is left from distilling petroleum to make gas and oil. But these synthetic versions-road tar and roofing pitch- are softer than asphaltum and would likely not be useful for Japanning. Roofing pitch is the harder of the two and it would be interesting to see if it worked nearly as well. Someone should try it.

His best guess is that the Japanning formulation is a cheap home made paint with the linseed oil being the film former and the asphaltum being a black dye and/or pigment for the paint. He did not think that the asphaltum had any role in forming the paint film other than coloring it, though the metals in this stuff could catalyze the drying of the linseed oil.

This stuff is common and used by the ton to pigment cheap printing ink.

If I was going to dissolve it I would fashion a double boiler and heat the mixture with the resulting steam of the double boiler.

Driveby alert!

Bill Houghton, Sebastopol, CA

>Oh, by the way, he says casually, I'm restoring a #51/52. That's plane and shooting board, yes, not two spokeshaves?

Ross Perot was right, but the great sucking sound's not coming from Mexico - from WAY further south.

Re: Driveby alert! *LINK*

Derek Cohen (in Perth, Australia)

>Hi Bill

Ha! < large grin >

Truthfully, it did not cross my mind. I have mentioned it here below, and I have an ongoing article about its restoration on the Old Tools List - which reminds me that I must post the next chapter - way overdue!

The link is below for those interested.

Regards from Perth

Derek


http://www.wkfinetools.com/contrib/dCohen/z_art/restStanley51-52/restStanley5152-1.asp

thank you

Moses Yoder in White Pigeon, MI

>I now have some asphaltum on the way. Will be some interesting experiments. I am not a chemist and have never even played one on tv, but I always thought the asphaltum would have more to do with the shiny black coating than just the color. Although it makes some sense; the late 1800's would probably not have as many choices in pigments for color. It would be interesting to see if I can use artists pigments of some type for coloring and make any color jappaning that I want to.

Re: Jappanning Instructions  *LINK*

Kevin French

>


Another link

why not simply use premixed paint?

bill tindal, E.TN

>"It would be interesting to see if I can use artists pigments of some type for coloring and make any color jappaning that I want to"....... Pigment dispersed in a film forming polymer is paint. That is what you will get if you mix pigment in linseed oil and let it dry. What are you trying to achieve that premixed paint won't satisfy? I can see recreating the Japanning formula for old tool restoration to be authentic. But for other colors it would seem enamel paint would achieve the desired result.

Re: why not simply use premixed paint?

Moses Yoder in White Pigeon, MI

>I will have to look up my jappanning formula this afternoon and think about that. The red color that Miller's Falls used on their drills would also be a baked on finish of some sort I think, and not simply painted.