Sharpening Hand Tools?

Hi Charles, You asked a loaded question...

Scott Burr in Ben Lomond, CA

>New tools or old? Rusted, pitted?...it all depends. A new tool i.e. blade chisel should not need to be ground. A simple honing is all thet need to be done. Unless you want to change the angle of a bevel or it has a nick in the mediea.

I use snadpaper to flatten the backs of blades and chisels. Depending on what I'm sharpening I'll stick with sand paper of water stones. As stated, there's a LOT of ways to get a sharp edege on tools.

Good luck in your quest!

Just don't forget to hone them!

Re: Hi Charles, You asked a loaded question...

Charles Jackson III

>I am going to add a 8000 grit sharpening stone, and a hone guide.

Re: Sharpening Hand Tools?

Jack Guzman from Maine

>Charles,I use a 1200 grit water stone followed by a 6000.The only time I grind is when I need to reshape a blade.Leonard Lee wrote a book about sharpening that should answer all your questions.---Jack

Re: Sharpening Hand Tools?

Kevin French

>Here's a SS kit I made for my sister.

Re: Sharpening Hand Tools? w/pic this time 

Kevin French

>

Re: Sharpening Hand Tools?

Michael Stadulis, in Gloucester County, NJ

>Hi Charles,

You'll get a bunch of answers to you question .........so here's my version. No, you do not need to grind each time, but grinding will make your life easier and sharpening faster. The ginder leaves the tool bevel edge slightly concave, which is called a "hollow ground edge". You can now use the "toe" (front) and "heel" (back) edges on the front and back of the "hollow" on the bevel to "register" the edge to the honing surface. Then you can freehand hone more easily. The hollow ground helps to register the toe and heel edges just like table legs allow a table to match the floors surface much better than if your table was a box with a flat bottom...that rocked around on the uneven floor. The toe and heel edges let you "feel" that both of those edges are rubbing on a stone or sandpaper as you slightly "rock" the bevel. You'll feel it, I guarantee you. After a few sharpenings, you will hone away the concavity that the grinder made on the bevel so you can re-grind again after a few sharpenings. No need to grind lots of metal.....just a few seconds is all it takes to get the concavity or hollow grind. A flat bevel is considerably harder to "register" to a stone unless you have a much thicker iron........which has a correspondingly much longer bevel to register. Even with a thicker iron, honing goes much faster when you hollow grind the bevel.. Make any sense?

-Mike

Re: Sharpening Hand Tools?

Charles Jackson III

>Ya it do make since. But I dont see a need for a grinder right now.

Re: Sharpening Hand Tools?

Derek Cohen (in Perth, Australia)

>Mike

By mentioning a hollow grind, you assume that a grinding takes place on a wheeled grinder. This is fine for bevel down plane blades and most chisels. Hollow grinding creates a microbevel.

However, some prefer to grind on a belt sander, which will produce a flat primary bevel. This is preferred for bevel up planes, where one will add a microbevel. It is also preferred for Japanese chisels and mortice chisels.

Charles

In answer to your query, grinding is only necessary when establishing or restoring a primary bevel. After than a microbevel is honed with medium and fine grade media (of ones choice).

Regards from Perth

Derek

Re: Sharpening Hand Tools?

Frank D. in Montreal

>Hi Derek,

I know we're getting a little OT herre, but I was wondering why a Bu plane would prefer a flat bevel. Doesn't the angle of the microbevel determine the effective pitch?

Re: Sharpening Hand Tools?

Frank D. in Montreal

>Hi Derek,

I know we're getting a little OT here, but I was wondering why a BU plane would prefer a flat bevel. Doesn't the angle of the microbevel determine the effective pitch?

Re: Sharpening Hand Tools?

Derek Cohen (in Perth Australia)

>Hi Frank

I agree that there is no reason why you cannot hone a microbevel on a hollow grind for a BU plane. Indeed, I have done this on my recently-built BU infill smoother with a 25 degree bed.

To some extent I betray my mental set when I state a preference for hollow grinding BD and flat grinding BU blades. This is in part due to the fact that I prefer to freehand hone blades. For BD blades, this is fairly straight forward since the cutting angle is taken from the bedding angle, and the two-point hollow grind is more stable to hold than a single-point flat grind. Whether one hones at 25 degrees, 28 degrees, 32 degrees .. it matters nil. However, BU blades acquire their cutting angle from the bed in association with their bevel angle (as I know you know ... just making a point here .. :) ), and so the bevel angle needs to be more specific. Again, it is not necessary to get obsessional about a few degrees here-or-there, but I lack the skill to freehand a microbevel in the desired range. There is a world of difference, when using a BU plane, when you have a microbevel of 25 degrees and another of 35 or 45 degrees. So, when it comes to BU planes, I end up using a honing guide.

There is another factor to take into account with the flat grind/microbevel of the BU plane. To achieve a 60 degree angle of attack on the typical LA (12 degree) BU plane, you will a bevel of 48 degrees. This is a hell of a thing to hollow grind if you wish to freehand! Of course, I am talking with my needs in mind - there is no reason why you cannot add a 48 degree microbevel to a hollow grind with a 25 degree primary bevel when using a honing guide.

This is one of the reasons for the 25 degree BU bed. A hollow grind of 35 degrees is a reasonable bevel with which to work. I can freehand this quite easily (and not to mention that the edge will last longer than one on a 12 degree bed - another issue for another time).

Regards from Perth

Derek

Re: Sharpening Hand Tools?

Michael Stadulis, in Gloucester County, NJ

>Hi Derek,

I don't see why you'd make your life harder with a belt sander setup. I have only one BU plane which is my LN jack, and as I said in the original post, with thicker irons you can register the bevel to a stone relatively easily since the thicker iron has a correspondingly longer bevel. Presumeably you're using thicker irons on the planes that you mentioned so I'm curious as to why you're using the belt sander.

-M

check the Articles section of this Forum

bill tindal, E.TN

>there you will find discussions on this popular topic

Re: Sharpening Hand Tools?

Derek Cohen (in Perth Australia)

>I don't see why you'd make your life harder with a belt sander setup.

Hi Mike

I answered this earlier.

A couple of questions for you - what angle is the bevel on your LN LA Jack, 25 degrees? I have them up to 50 degrees. Have you tried freehanding at that angle?

I will also add that a belt sander has some advantages over a dry grinder (e.g. it runs cooler, can use a variety of grits - in fact can become a complete sharpening centre - FWW published my jig in this months mag so you can see it there).

Regards from Perth

Derek

Re: Sharpening Hand Tools?

Michael Stadulis, in Gloucester County, NJ

>Hi Derek,

interesting point about the difficulties w/ hand honing the steeper bevel, and no, I don't use various steep bevels for the LA jack, so that issue never occured to me. I'll take a peek at the jig.

-M

I see; thanks Derek

Frank D. in Montreal

>