Sharpening Advice Needed

something to consider

bill tindal, E.TN

>Persons I know that have purchased sharpening machines wean themselves of using them over time if they do much woodworking. And then these expensive machines sit idle in their shops. It may be a cheaper strategy to lean to sharpen by hand on a stone of some kind to begin with.

Re: something to consider

mikew

>Which has always puzzeled me at times. At least seeing how most makers of tools use powered means to create and refine the edges to begin with.

For instance, while I may change the shape of some of my Pfiel carving tools, they certainly came as sharp as I can make them, powered or by hand. So too with my Blue Spruce chisel...

I may touch them up in use via hand methods, but I too refine and shape the tools and occassionaly sharpen via powered and or jiggy methods.

Take care, Mike

Re: Green goop, felt wheels, and polishing

Dave Mount, still in the deep freeze

>Morning Howard--

I haven't used the LV system and I never remember how to cross reference those grits with waterstone grits. That said, my last two steps in sharpening chisels are an 8000 grit Norton waterstone and LV green sharpening goop on a piece of MDF. There is no question in my mind that the green stuff on MDF polishes beyond the finish I get from the 8000 grit stone. If the 1200 grit on the LV system is not substantially finer than an 8000 grit stone, then I think you will be able to refine the scratch pattern with LV green goop. Admittedly I'm not looking at the edge with a microscope, but the visible polish is notably higher with the green stuff.

I was headed toward a felt wheel when I tried the green stuff on MDF then decided not to get the wheel because the MDF worked so well. I have a Tormek and have never liked the leather stropping wheel because it seemed too easy to dub the edge. Further, I don't think it's a good idea to use the leather wheel on the Tormek for chisel backs, because you will almost certainly round the back over a little right at the cutting edge. I think that would apply to any round polishing substrate, felt wheel included. For plane irons this is not so serious as it just increases the effective cutting angle a little (for bevel down planes), but it is still a kind of uncontrolled part of sharpening.

For straight edges, I'd try the green stuff on MDF before springing for the felt wheel -- you'll want the green stuff anyway if you ever get the felt wheel. Curved edges are a little tricker to polish from a flat surface, and a contoured felt wheel might be more desirable for that. However, many make do with shaping a piece of wood or leather to a suitable contour then applying the green stuff to that for final polishing.

Everybody has their own sharpening schtick, and I think there's a message in the fact that so many different methods prove effective for individuals. I'll respectfully disagree with Bill about the utility/desirability of power sharpening tools. I "inherited" my Tormek when a woodworker friend passed away. I really like it and continue to use it after having had it 7 years or so. While I do my final sharpening and honing freehand on waterstones and MDF as described, I like the Tormek for it's ability to prepare a straight edge at a controlled angle. I don't go back to the Tormek for every sharpening, but I like having it for establishing or re-establishing a beginning shape. The slight hollow grind also makes freehand sharpening even easier. For that reason, I think you may find you like having a power system as part of your sharpening arsenal (with the caveat that I've never laid hands on the particular one you are getting).

A long-winded response to your simple question. Let me try again. Yes, I think you will get a higher polish, though you might not need the felt wheel to get it.

Best,

Dave

What he said

Tony - Memphis

>I keep a green stuff charged piece of mdf on my bench when I am carving. I use it as a final hit for my chisels and plane irons too. There is another compound out there called yellow stone I think it is that cuts really well. I don't think it will stick to mdf though. I use it on leather. I bought a felt wheel, but I never use it. I too use a Tormek for shaping. After many honing's, you need to re-flatten the bevel and the Tormek is great for that.

Tony - not so sharp, but his tools are!

The other Tormek wheel

woodburnbob

>I agree with everything you said, Dave, especially about the Tormek leather wheel.

A few months ago I tried to get to the bottom of it and stripped off the cheezy leather. I mounted the plastic wheel on my metal lathe and measured "runout". It was huge!! Can't remember the numberd. It was also weirdly cone shaped. Seems likely the plastic molding process was defective, and as the plastic cooled, gravity supplied some distortion. Anyway, I turned it down to a concentric cylinder (I think I posted some pics several months ago).

I've tried a couple of different "beltings" and used a tool rest and various different angles at a good deal less that the grinding angle, e.g. grind at 30 and Tormek-leather at 20. It is possible to get less than the usual damaging amount of "dubbing", but it's still a bit more artistic freehand than precise and repeatable tool work.

What's particularly interesting to me is the way some of the woodcarvers go about honing and polishing: guaranteed, sought-after, desireable dubbing. They intend to put not a flat on their edges, but a parabola. They have awfully sharp tools.

As much as most folks want to get sharpening in the category of standardized linear principles, I still find it pretty metaphysical and sometimes paradoxical.

Yep! Me too,

Scott Burr in Ben Lomond CA

>'ceptin I use doubble tempered masonite.

Never got the hang of the felt wheel. Well, yet...

Try this...

Steve Kubien

>On one side of the 3mm platter, use some spray adhesive (77 by 3M works well) and CAREFULLY apply a piece of linen from a bed sheet. Be especially careful to avoid any bumps or pockets. Put the platter on the MKII, turn it on, and charge the platter with green honing compound. Move the tool carrier to the left side (I think) of the tool rest so that the platter turns AWAY from the cutting edge. There you go, you just created a very finely honed bevel.

Regards,

Steve Kubien

-who no longer works at Lee Valley but did pick up a couple of neat tidbits of information.

And a picture....

Tony - Memphis

>I had to run out to the shop this morning to grab a drill and I snapped this shot with my phone to send to a buddy. anyway, you can see my mdf charged with the green stuff...

Nice legs.

Dan Donaldson

>What are you making?

Agreed... Nice stems

Scott Burr in Ben Lomond CA

>

Re: What he said

Pam Niedermayer - Austin, TX

>Why not make a wheel of mdf? Nice carving on those legs, Tom.

Pam

Re: Nice legs.

Tony - Memphis

>Thanks. Its gonna be a stool.

Tony