cathedral window

The picture 

Jack Guzman from Maine

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Re: cathedral window

Paul in NJ

>Jack,

I'm not sure if you're asking how to curve the material or how to cut the profile and rabbets into the stock. With hand tool methods you can 'brick lay' segments, offsetting the glue joints in two or more layers and then cut the result to shape with a bow saw. Smooth and fair with planes, shaves, scrapers, etc. The profile could be cut with a scratch stock. It might go quicker if you rough the shape with gouges or chisels. The rabbet could be done the same way or with special planes like a coach makers rabbet. I'm sure there are probably other tools you could use.

If you have access to, are willing to use a table saw and router, an alternate method could be used. You rip strips from a board at a thickness that will accept the radius you want without snapping. Keep the strips in order and laminate them on a form. Clean up the surfaces with a plane and it is pretty easy to do the profile and rabbet with a bearing guided bit. The advantage of this method is that the grain looks pretty nice and has more strength in other applications.

Sorry about the machine methods on the hand tool forum.

Regards,

Paul Dzioba

P.S. I can't see a picture and assuming a sash with an arc. A gothic style sash would be easier.

Re: The picture

Paul in NJ

>Now I see that you meant a gothic style window. It appears you could cut each side of the arc from a board without brick lay or laminating.

Paul Dzioba

Re: The picture

Jack Guzman from Maine

>Thanks Paul,

I was thinking about cutting it from a solid piece,no bending.What I need is pointers on shaping the rabbets and profile and best ways of assembling and joining.I've never built a sash.I'm hoping someone will know of a book or website where they deal with making similar sashes.I guess my best bet is just to try it and see what I come up with.I use hand tools primarily but when a power ***** works better I don't hesitate.It's all about shaping the wood not which tool is used.---Jack

Re: cathedral window

Jamey Amrine in Ann Arbor

>For your questions in the sash building, try Modern Practical Joinery by George Ellis. Fantastic book and will probably direct you on how to get all the joinery set up for this sort of thing.

Re: The picture

Warren in Lancaster, PA

>Jack, I think I would make the top Y piece of one piece of wood, tenoned into the top horizontal muntin and into the outer frame. This eliminates an awkward joint where the two arms come together and I think it is the strongest. The down side is that you have to carve out the V section in the middle. Some people would make three pieces for the Y and miter and epoxy them.

As Paul suggests there are a lot of ways to shape the profile. I think using a scratch stock would be tiresome for the amount of material to be removed and it is not very good on softwood. I would use a sash plane or molding planes on the straight sections and carve the curved sections with chisels and gouges. Carving tidy moldings is a lot easier than it looks. If this appeals to you, I will give some details.

Re: cathedral window

Jack Guzman from Maine

>Thanks Jamey,I'll look for it.---Jack

Re: The picture

Jack Guzman from Maine

>Hi Warren,Great tip on the "Y" section. I'm going to do just that.As for carving out the profile I welcome any further info you have. This project is going to be a total learning process.---Jack

Re: The picture

Warren in Lancaster, PA

>Jack, I am going to describe how I would make an ovolo molding on an upper curved frame member.

First, I would do the joinery (tenons etc.) at the ends of the piece. It is easiest to do the layout and cutting when you still have straight sides. Then I would saw the inside curve and smooth with a spokeshave. Then mark and cut the mortise for the Y piece tenon. Mark the entire length with the gauge because these lines will delineate the depth of the ovolo on the front and the rabbet on the back. You want to cut the mortise while you still have a flat edge on the outside of the frame to rest on.

For the molding, use a marking gauge to mark the edge of the ovolo on the face, about 1/4" from the edge. Also mark a line on the inside edge about 1/16 from the face. Using a flat gouge that aproximates the curve, chop straight down in the gauge line in the face, then chop and finally pare from the edge to form a shallow 1/16 X 1/4 rabbet. It is best to work from the ends to the center because of the way the grain runs out into the waste. Then use the gauge again to mark a line on this new surface 1/16 or so from the inner edge and chop down to the mortise line with the gouge.

What you have formed is a square "bead" where you want a rounded bead for the ovolo. Taking care at this stage will help insure the uniformity of the molding because it is much easier to judge the square bead. Then round the bead with a spokeshave and a gouge, again working from the ends to the middle. I like to use a back bent gouge that is close to the profile needed. I would complete the frame before making the muntins and the Y piece.

This method is more work than a lot of machine methods, but specialized work like this often comes in such small doses that it is sometimes more economical to do it by hand than to tool up and set up by machine. It makes quite a difference whether you are doing one window or a thousand.

Federal Furniture - Michael Dunbar

Greg B�tit, Crown Point NY

>This 1986 book features a secretary that has two (rectangular) glass doors, each with three long windows topped by a gothic arch (not exactly what you have pictured). The arches are framed with the top piece a solid flat piece with the three arches cut out. Likewise the window frames are flat spines "notched and joined together, glued and dadoed to the frame." Muntin moldings are applied over this framework, providing the rabbit that holds in the glass. He forms the molding profile with a combination of a simple scratch tool(filed wood screw) and gouges.

greg

Re: The picture

Jack Guzman from Maine

>This is a one time thing and only one window. It is also kind of a favor to a friend,helping him with a house he hand built.I won't mind a little extra work.I appreciate this. I'm sure it will be alot of help.---Jack

Re: cathedral window

Bill Sams

>Jack, the book "Circular work in Carpentry and Joinery" by George Collings is excellent in this regard. Here's a link to Amazon for the book.

http://www.amazon.com/Circular-Carpentry-Joinery-George-Collings/dp/0941936481

Here's another link to a project I did, the fourth picture down shows

an unassembled door, (different but similar to what you want to do) with the peices laid out.

http://jwsjoinery.com/jws/officecabinet.html

Good luck.

Re: cathedral window

Jack Guzman from Maine

>Thanks Bill. That is the same joint,just different curve.That is helpful.Nice cabinet.---Jack