Need drawknife advice

Re: Need drawknife advice

Paul in NJ

>Rasps and files work particularly well shaping contours in hardwoods. You could follow that with a card scraper and a little sandpaper.

Paul Dzioba

Re: Need drawknife advice

Todd O. Cronkhite Maine Native, Presently Away

>As far as I know Ken there would be no particular "brand" of drawknife to use look for. A Witherby would be just as good as a Swan, or Greenlee, etc, etc. Drawknives are a funny thing at flea markets around here. Some vendors see them as extemely rare and thus valuable, while others see them for what they are which is a common tool and price them accordingly.

I have no idea what cutting angle you'd want for the Jatoba, but than again, I can't see that as being too critical either as a drawknife is used from the "hogging" off excess work and not for final shaping. I suppose they could be of coarse, but usually are used for the coarser stock removal stages.

Perhaps Derek might pipe in with some Wisdom as Jatoba is wood that he frequently uses.

Bottom line tho, don't get caught up looking for a particular name on a drawknife. A drawknife with a straight blade should do you just fine, tho I like the ones that have a "belly". Do you have flea markets in your area? If so, you should be able to find one faily easily and for cheap, $10 tops is what I'd pay for a common one.

Good Luck with your legs.

Todd O.

Wilkinson

Jim in Burlington On

>I'm quite fond of the Wilkinson drawknives. The steel seems to really hold a nice edge for a good long time. I've bought several off of e-bay that's the only cheap source I've found. Another idea was the Shinto Rasp that Glen Huey used in his video. Seemed to me that did a nice job quickly.

Re: Need drawknife advice

John Hoffman

>Be very careful using a drawknife on these legs. A drawknife can take very fine shavings in an expirienced hand, but if you attack against the grain while working the curve you could split out a chunk of wood and ruin the piece. Maybe Brian Boggs could do it, but I would stick to rasps...

Regards

JH

Re: Need drawknife advice

Greg B�tit, Crown Point NY

>Do a search for "draw knife" on eBay. You'll get three pages & another page with a search on "drawknife". You can't do much better than getting an old Witherby, Swan, Pexto, Greenlee, Keen Kutter, etc. knife. New ones cost three or more times what you can get a nice one for on eBay. Look for a shiny one with lots of iron left. You'll want to get it scary sharp. Careful with the grinder- you can turn a nice knife into a not so nice one in a hurry. DAMHIKT. Also check the pictures out to make sure a previous owner hasn't already ground the knife incorrectly. Freehand grinding a knife is an art.

For flat and convex surfaces you'll be working mostly bevel up, but for concave ones bevel down is the way to go. A very used drawknife with little iron left is actually an advantage here. I have a nice old one I keep just for the little divots on the sides of shield shaped chair seats; I'll bet it's just the ticket for the transition to the front of the foot of a cabriole leg, as well.

Size matters, too. A 12" or 10" blade is a good general size. If all you're going to be doing is cabriole legs and you're going to only own one draw knife, maybe 8" is better.

greg

I'm A Greenlee fan...

Scott Burr in Ben Lomond, CA

>As others have said be carefull...

Re: Need drawknife advice

Derek Cohen (in Perth, Australia)

>Hi Ken

I have not used Jatoba before, but Mike Wenzloff tells me it is a lot like Jarrah.

My immediate recommendation is that you do not consider using a drawknife, especially if you are not used to using one. Rough out the work on a bandsaw instead, then use a spokeshave to shape it to specification.

I am in the process of building a pair of end tables. The body is built of Jarrah (and the top will be Tasmanian Oak with inlay), with legs that must be shaped to curve in two directions. The work here is much less demanding than shaping cabriolet legs. For the latter I would also be using rasps, files and card scrapers.

This is a WIP picture (hope you can make it out). There will be a third legf in the centre.

I am using a few different spokeshaves, which I mention here so that you can see a few choices. (Part of this will be written up as a review of the HNT Gordon flat- and round bottomed spokeshaves).

A longstanding favourite of mine is the Stanley #53, which has an adjustable mouth. This is a great alrounder. I bought this one cheaply on eBay. This is a must-have spokeshave in my book.

Another very useful spokeshave is the low angle Veritas, which is capable of switching between tight curves and flats. It is tighter in the curve than the Stanley but requires more practice to master.

Don't even think about a round bottomed spokeshave, such as the Stanley #51 - these are nearly impossible to master quickly. They will produce considerable chatter and frustrate you to death!

The (high angle) HNT Gordons are simply superb in taming this Jarrah. They are the only spokeshave I have used that can plane against the grain without tearout. More at another time.

Regards from Perth

Derek

Re: Need drawknife advice

Robin Corell in Atascadero, CA

>I have a rather large crank necked gouge that is the better part of 2" and something close to a #5 sweep that I like to use for hogging off waste. In the pic you can see how one side still has the tooling markes left by the gouge. My favorite spokeshave tends to be which ever one is sharp and set to take the appropriate cut for the wood I am working at the time. I usually end up fine tuning the finish with one of my small shaves like the one in the pic. I have several of these and they are all identical and mde out of a white metal. I like these much beter than the various brass ones.

The point I wanted to make is that on the same piece of round stock a large shave and a small one with their blades set the same will take the same size shaving. The small shave with the handles lower to the work and closer together is easier to control for precise final cuts. This is something that seems counter intuitive but if you take the time to tune up one of these little gems I thing you will find it extremely valuable.

Jetoba works really well with a nicolson #50 if all else fails.

Robin Corell

Ps. the wood in the pic is Elm and it is the bottom edge of a coffee table.

Re: Need drawknife advice

Patrick Gibbons

>A drawknife takes a lot of work to use. Sharpening is different from what the average woodworker normally runs into and technique is more art than science. The other day I was thinking of posting a request for tips on drawknife technique but decided that I would be better served by making some more mistakes on my own. Mike Dunbar's book on tuning and using hand tools is a good place to start for some info. He puts a subtle double bevel on the edge to make the tool more agressive in bevel-up use. My Pexto came from the bay and though it was in good shape, still, it had pitting on the back that required more work in the sharpening. Finding a good knife at a flea would be better than ebay because you can judge the condition easier. Finding a good flea market is another story. I don't think a drawknife is ideal for shaping a cabrio even though it would be good in the initial stages. I think you would get more control and better results by buying some good rasps and spokeshaves.

Re: Need drawknife advice

Ernie Miller

>I don't know if I would go with a drawknife on this. It is to easy to take to big a bite and ruin a leg. I would use a band saw ir bow saw if you want to stay nander, then finish up with spoke shaves and rasps. I had breakfast Saturday with a nice guy that owns KC Windsor tool works. can't find his card it is at home but he makes some super draw knives and beaders. You would be very happy with one of them if you need one. St James Bay usual has pretty good prices on rasps. I bought several not to long ago when they had them on sale 50% off. Good luck with the project and post pictures as you go along.

Re: Need drawknife advice

dave caudill

>I have a particular fondness for Witherby but my favorite right now is an 8" Peck Stow and Wilcox. Wilkinson drawknifes are very nice. Again brand is not really an issue. I think the more important issues are size 8" versus 10", 12", 14", also fixed handles(my preference) versus folding which never seem to be tight. Also are the handles tight and in good shape and does the knife feel good in you hands. Knife angle is inmportant as each feels a little different depending on the angle of the blade and each works better or worse for different tasks. Then there is the straight bladed knife versus the curved blade. I prefer a curved blade over a straight one but that is my own personal preference. I think the straight blade knife is a little easier to sharpen though. Also when sharpening be extra careful. There is something about sharpening drawknifes that seems to be a bit more risky than other edge tools. Partly it is just an awkward beast compared to a chisel or plane blade and as is obvious it is just one heck of a large blade and has lots of potential for a large cut. I wish you lived close I would offer to lend you a couple to try out. As with most tools that seems to be the sure fire way to get something that works for you. Ebay is a good place to look also you might try Sandy Moss at www.sydnassloot.com. Sandy is a great guy to deal with and always has a nice selection of tools.

Dave

Re: Need drawknife advice

Pam Niedermayer - Austin, TX

>Mack Headley uses a drawknife for rough curve definition on cabriole legs, then refines with a spokeshave. This appears faster than setting up for bandsawing.

I like the laminated blades, whether old (Witherby, Swan, etc.) or new (Japanese).

Mack uses the drawknife bevel up for this task.

If you want to see this done, there's a Card Table video that I got from the Colonial Williamsburg online shop.

Pam

Thanks all - I appreciate the advice!

Ken Krawford

>

Rasp File & Sureform Naysayers- Pah.

Greg B�tit, Vergennes VT

>There were a lot of people trying to discourage you from using a draw knife in this application. This advice sounds to me like it should have come from the noisy forum, not the hand tool one. Consider the draw knife a basic hand tool and learn to master it. It's not that hard.

Sharpening a draw knife is not "difficult" it's just a little different than what you may be used to. I hold the draw knife like an old time fiddler- not up under the chin, but cradled in my left arm (right hander). I use stones that are mounted to a block of wood (they came that way with a cover). It's good to have the additional stand off for your fingers. Using something like a thin bare stone or diamond hone requires a little more caution. But there you are with the edge steady and right close; have at it. When you have done it once or twice you will be good at it and feel comfortable doing it. Don't let the comfort fool you away from caution.

Mike Dunbar likes a knife edge type drawknife & recommends dubbing the flat side with a huge secondary bevel. I like leaving the flat side pretty near flat, just barely touching it up with a steeper bevel while stropping. Having the flat side flat is a real boon when you want to work a surface flat. I can think of no advantge to having two bevel sides. Consider that by far the greatest percentage of old draw knives you see have a flat side and a beveled side. Those folks from the past are trying to tell us something; listen.

greg

Re: Rasp File & Sureform Naysayers- Pah.

Paul in NJ

>"There were a lot of people trying to discourage you from using a draw knife in this application. This advice sounds to me like it should have come from the noisy forum, not the hand tool one. Consider the draw knife a basic hand tool and learn to master it. It's not that hard".

I recommended rasps and files because I thought it would be difficult to work Jatoba with a draw knife. I believe it is a pretty hard wood so you would need to take smaller bites. Clamping and holding the odd shape of a cabriolet leg would be more difficult since you would need more force to cut with the draw knife. Finally, is Jatoba one of those tropicals that have a lot of silica and minerals that really work your edge over? Will you need to sharpen more, steepen your bevels? Maybe you can make one from a HSS jointer blade:>). Maybe some of our Australian posters would care to share their opinion since they are used to working with ornery woods.

Paul Dzioba

P.S. I like using my draw knife and spokeshaves and do so whenever I can. I thought there would be a better chance for success with rasps and files.

Re: Rasp File & Sureform Naysayers- Pah.

Greg B�tit, Vergennes VT

>Well Paul, you could very well be right about the nature of Austrailian woods. My experience is only with North American species- American hop horbeam being the densest, and black locust being the most silica-bearing among the ones I have worked with a draw knife. Rock maple is somewhere in between the two hardness-wise.

Working hard wood or wood with embedded rocks logically does take more effort and a greater toll on the cutting ability of the tool. That's true whether you're filing, rasping, surforming, power sanding or using an edged tool.

greg

Re: Rasp File & Sureform Naysayers- Pah.

Paul in NJ

>Greg,

It is funny how there is so much regional difference in woods of the same species. I burn 4-6 cords of Black Locust every year. I have always heard how hard it is. It is my preferred wood for hatchet and hammer handles since I have it on hand and I recently handled some English mortise chisels with it. I find it pleasant to work with draw knife and spoke shave and never have found much silica in it. On the contrary I had a piece of hard and heavy Mahogany substitute if you held up to the light, you could see silica glint at you. Like broken glass on the road at night. That piece dulled the edge of my trimming plane fast!

Paul Dzioba

P.S. I'm going to have my firewood guy save some long pieces of Locust and hope to use it for Windsor bows and spindles. It cleaves nicely and I think it might steam well. Have you tried it for chairs?

Re: Rasp File & Sureform Naysayers- Pah.

Greg B�tit, Vergennes VT

>I made one nice arm bending from what looked like a likely tree. A friend was coming up for a week & we were going to make bent arm Welsh stick chairs with butternut seats and black locust for the rest. It turned out the parts we made when he was up didn't want to bend. Admittedly, with a cross section of 7/8" X 1 1/4", that was a challenging bend. But it worked for me once! We ended up making kitchen stools instead.

I've got a 4 acre lot with plenty of black locust that go 40' or more with no branches, I'm not done trying to get more bent parts from black locust.

greg