Slightly OT question

Re: Slightly OT question

Todd O. Cronkhite Maine Native, Presently Away

>The house is poured concrete 15� thick

Dang David, expecting a Nuclear Blast anytime soon? ;~) coarse, in todays World anything is possible.

What made you decide to go with poured concrete? Personally, I can see many many advantages to it, and very few cons?

Very interesting.

Todd O.

Re: Slightly OT question

David Miller from Iowa

>We intend to die in this house in 30-50 years, so we are going all out on energy efficiency and low maintenance. 8 ton geothermal system should heat/cool 5,000 square feet (this includes the shop, scheeze) for about $130/month. No gas at all so we are petroleum independent at the house (except, I suppose, that a portion of our electricity is generated by natural gas). Anyway, on a total lifecycle cost the 15" walls and geothermal system have about a 12 year payback then we can reap the rewards of the investment.

Re: Slightly OT question

Mark Nowicki

>Do a drywall return instead. Skip the casing as well. My mothers house is like this, not a piece of casing any where, only drywall and steel j channels.

Mark

Re: Slightly OT question *LINK*

Pam Niedermayer - Austin, TX

>I assume that the extension jam is to be used to attach trim. So first I'd ask why not just go with a plastered/painted non-trimmed style, an arch?

Assuming that this isn't acceptable, the jam needs to be about 1" thick. Were you planning to laminate the bended masonite/plywood to a 1" thickness? If you do this, I think you'll want to face it with solid wood for nailing the frame and/or sill, in which case the arch part of the wood will have to be cut and jointed much like Jack Guzman's clock face.

Pam


Jack's new clock

Re: Slightly OT question

Pam Niedermayer - Austin, TX

>David, I read Mark's post after writing mine. Will you drywall over the concrete? If so, I agree with Mark.

Pam

wobble wood

Rob Brophy...lost in Niagara

>Hi David...I use bendable plywood quite often at work. Seems to me it's available in 3/8" or 7/16" thickness' in 4x8 sheets. Most around here call it 'bendy-board' or 'wobble wood'...don't know what the proper name is.

It might be a better choice than masonite or MDF because of condensation near the windows. Two laminations of wobblewood & some sealer and you will be all set. It's easy stuff to use and -dirt- cheap.

Or you could rip pine into 1/4" thick boards and laminate around a form?

Re: Slightly OT question

Dave Mount

>I'm with the others on the fixes -- drywall returns unless wood is a must, next option bending plywood, last option cold-bent lamination. Casing will have to be pieced by mitering and recut to a circle.

I'm interested in hearing more about the construction details. Is the concrete just thermal mass or does it have another role in the heating/cooling? It surely doesn't need to be 15" thick just for structure, does it? Are you using foam forms? If not, (or even if so) what are the insulation details? Tell us more!

Best,

Dave

Re: Slightly OT question

Jack Guzman from Maine

>David,I had to do something similar.I used thin plywood (bendable or wobble wood would be ideal)to extend the jamb.First I built a framework of scrap framing to back the plywood and to nail the trim to.For the trim,just build it in sections butted together.If it's painted,you'll never know the difference. If the grain is exposed just match the sections for best grain orientation.---Jack

Pay the money

Jim in Burlington On

>I'd simply bite the bullet and pay the money for solid wood casing. Drywall returns look like C_ap after a few years around window's. Often the metal edging will rust around window's. Triming out around window's is quite a chore but well worth the effort and money when done right.

ICF's

cooper suter

>Are you using ICF's (insulated concrete forms)?

What brand?

Re: ICF's *LINK*

David Miller from Iowa

>Yes - icfs. 10" concrete, 5" styrofoam.

We used eco block but if I did it over there is another brand that is "reversible" - where if you need a left hand right angle block you can just flip a right hand one over. Eco blocks have top and a bottom and need a different part for right and left turns.

Any contractor can lay up the styrofoam blocks as they are like giant legos, the real skill comes in pouring the concrete. Our guy was great. Each pour was 11 feet deep, but he had to go round and round the house in 2' lifts or the styrofoam would blow out. They put retardant in the concrete because it took hours to go around after the pour and jack all the walls into plumb.

David


Insulated Concrete Forms

"the real skill comes in pouring the concrete"

cooper suter

>Never used Eco Block,I have used Redi-Form, Fold-Form and Nudura though.

ICF's are a coming idea, are they common for residential work in your area?

Why 10" walls? Is there some extreme structural load involved that 6" or 8" w/rod wouldn't have handled?

One of the benefits of most ICF's is that rebar placement is easily achieved w/out really jacking the labor up.

At $85 per yard and up for concrete, rods usually a lot cheaper than extra thickness.

Actually, sounds like the guy pouring didn't know what he was doing.

A retardant would basically make all that pouring in lifts a moot point; you'd never be gaining on the liquid pressure in the forms by having the prior lift setting and taking load.

Might as well of poured in two lifts w/out retarder.

If keeping things to line were the issue, he just needed a couple of people following behind the pour bringing the forms back to line as he went.

If Eco Block will only take 2' lifts, its got to be one of the weakest ICF's out there.

I've poured a fair amount of Fold Form, and don't really consider it that good of an ICF compared to the competition (80's design),but it'll take 4' of 6" slump concrete fine.

I'd say it's THE common misconception that any idiot can stack up the "giant legos"; it isn't rocket science, but the problem the industry is having is poor installations.

In residential work the contractors are trying to get either their existing poured wall contractor, or their framers to set the forms.

Either one of these types of sub crews is primarily made up of glorified laborers w/one journeyman running them.

The average poured wall guys don't have the carpentry skills to work w/in tolerances you'd expect for living space (+ or - 1/4"), and have real problems w/the openings being to tolerance and holding concrete.

The average framer is probably 22 if your lucky, and has NO idea about poured walls. The concepts of liquid pressure, ties, waling, stiff backs and turn buckles just aren't there.

It can be a steep learning curve, it only takes a couple of bad jobs in an area to give the product a bad name.