Containing the mess? Water Stone Sharpening

Re: Containing the mess? Water Stone Sharpening

wilbur

>I use Shapton waterstones which are designed NOT to be stored in water. All you have to do is throw water on the stone, and you're good to go. I think that more waterstones, especially Japanese ones, are starting to be designed this way.

As far as the mess goes, I built a quick and dirty box made of pine. I sealed the joints of the box with silicone caulk. I made a board with stops on the underside so that it fits snugly across the top. The top of this board also has a stop that I place the waterstone against. This way, when sharpening, all the water that I pour onto the stone runs into the box, where it sits until I dump it out after sharpening. Of course, the box warps to no end, but thanks to the caulk, it doesn't leak, which is all I want from it.

A friend of mine has a similar setup but he used a large Rubbermaid container that he found at Target.

Rubbermaid container, eh?

Dominic Greco in Richboro PA

>Thanks for the input! The idea of making a water resistant tray out of wood does sound do-able. You know, you've given me an idea. If I could get some lexan/acrylic, I could make a tray just the size I want. Ripping some "drip edges" out of the lexan/acrylic and gluing them on would be a snap. Sounds like an idea! That is, unless I could find a perfectly sized plastic version. I wonder if an AC Moore or Michaels Crafts would have something like what I want. I've looked in Kmart, Walmart, and Target but have found nothing suitable.

But that Rubbermaid container sounds pretty interesting as well! And I was just at Target today! If you don't mind, I have some questions. Was it used in lieu of your wooden tray idea? Or just to store the stones? What kind of container was it? Can you describe it?

Thanks,

Dominic

Re: Rubbermaid container, eh? *LINK*

wilbur

>Next time you're at Target, look around in the home organization/storage section. You should find at least one aisle that's full of plastic storage bins. At the Target by us, they're made by Rubbermaid and Sterilite.

What my friend did was to take a storage bin whose shorter side was about 3-4" longer than his waterstones, cut a board to fit so that it stretched across the bin if it was seated a little below the edge of the bin, drilled holes for screws in the long sides of the bin and the ends of the board, and screwed it into place. He also made a stop on the top side of the board that the waterstone could sit against while sharpening.

Follow the link to get an idea of the type of container I'm talking about.


Tubs suitable for making a waterstone tray

Rubbermaid

Jim in Burlington On

>I store my Norton stones in the water all the time inside a rubbermaid container. I just flip the lid over and sharpen right on that it doesn't slide around and the edge keeps all the mess on the lid.

I store mine...

Christopher Fitch@Memphis

>in a tupperware container in water.

I did make a sharpening tray to hold everything. After glue + nails, I slathered multiple coats of poly on it.

Re: Containing the mess? Water Stone Sharpening

Derek Cohen (in Perth, Australia)

>Dominic

I use the LV Stone Pond to store my polishing stones (those that do not require water for storage). In my opinion, the stone pond is flawed insofar as water will evaporate, and then you are left with sludge. So my grinding stones are in a water in a sealed Tupperware.

I use these waterstones one at a time on my waterstone board. This has a clamped length of 220 grit drywall mesh for flattening the stones. It is clamped at one end so it is easy to lift up and swab up excess water. The mesh is stiff and lies flat.

The board is just an offcut of a laminate covered kitchen bench. Just sponge up as you work.

Hope this helps.

Regards from Perth

Derek

dedicated sharpening area

Moses Yoder in White Pigeon, MI

>Most workshop books will say that you should have a dedicated area for sharpening. I found this to be true. If you can build a small bench just for sharpening, or add a small counter somewhere on a wall, you will sharpen more frequently and with a much bigger smile on your face. Having to pull out a tray and set it on a woodworking bench every time you want to sharpen kind of puts the kibosh on sharpening. With a dedicated table you can put a couple drawers under it to hold all your stuff, set up lighting the way you want, and whenever you need to sharpen the stuff is all there and ready to go.

Re: dedicated sharpening area

Warren in Lancaster, PA

>I could not agree more, Moses. A sturdy table with a few drawers takes up about as much space as a drill press and is certainly more helpful and more used.

Sharpening sink

Jack Guzman from Maine

>I have a plastic laundry sink in a small nook near my shop.I built a small bench next to and level with it.I coated the bench with poly and keep my stones in a plastic tub at the back.Sharpening accessories are on a shelf nearby.That sink has turned out to be handy for all kinds of stuff and when I need to sharpen,everything is right there.I just wipe the mess into the sink and rinse it down.---Jack

Wow, thanks for all the input!

Dominic Greco in Richboro PA

>Thank you all so much for the information! I got some great ideas here and will have to sit back and see what solutions are right for me.

I like the shop built solutions that Chris and Derek came up with. As well as containing the mess, Chris' wooden poly coated box looks perfect for organizing your sharpening accessories. I admire the simplicity of Derek's clamping mechanism. It looks like it works perfectly. The stone flattening idea is also really nice. I have a similar set up that uses an 80 grit sander belt on 3/4" MDF for flattening and initial flattening of hand plane soles.

But you have to love the ease and convenience of the Rubbermaid/Tupperware container route that others went with. Can't get much more simple than that!

I'm thinking of some sort of combination of the two schools of thought. Let me let that idea "simmer" for a while and I'll tell you what I come up with. :>)

While I would LOVE to have a dedicated area for sharpening in my shop, I think that won't be happening any time soon. Maybe after some renovation I can set aside a small area just for that. But for now, space is at a premium.

Thanks again for contributing to this thread. This is the kinda' information that's priceless. I'm going to print this out to a PDF file and save it in my "Woodworking Wisdom" file. If you're curious about how to do that, check out my recent post on WC's Main Message Board

See ya around,

Dominic

Re: Rubbermaid container, eh?

Norman (Ottawa, Ont.)

>Dominic,

Exactly what I did. I made a water resistant tray with lip all around. The tray is melmine type material, not as slippery though. The lip is hardwood with epoxy all around as a seal..

It does a good job of containing the sharpening mess and the lip is low enough to not be an issue. I store the stones in a Tupperware type container next to the tray. The Tupperware container has a lid which is hinged, so the water doesn't evaporate afterwards if I don't decide to empty it.

Like you, I battled with the mess for a while before coming up with a solution I could live with.

I still keep a couple of white rags nearby to wipe things down after use ....

Norman

Re: Containing the mess? Water Stone Sharpening

ThomD

>Depends where I am, to some extent, do I have a washbasin, or am I outside, or worst of all indoors and no water. My main sellection consists of 4 stones. 2 1000ish stones for flatening each other and starting the process or taking out nicks. 2 finishing stones like a 4000, 8000. I keep them all in the same bucket on end, not touching with enough exposed to grab them out of the water. I've got lots of stones, the pond and have made special sharpening stations, I found over time that nothing was versatile enoug, and I am back to the bucket.

I don't personally think the Shaptons are less messy. All the lapping and lapping compound easily makes up for any gain from the hardness, and I'm not sure serious users are really flocking to them, though they do have the finest grits I have seen in synthetics. Some did, some laughed at the idea. If you look at what they are, they mostly seem designed to satisfy the beginer who is worried about keeping stones flat, and excess stone wear. I don't think that either of those are serious problems for the daiku. Not to say they don't work great, just not convinced they are a step forward from what we had.

Re: Containing the mess? Water Stone Sharpening

Tom in central PA

>My solution is a cafeteria tray. If you don't want to "borrow" one, you can do what I did -- ordered it from www.hubert.com. They should also be available in a restaurant supply store. They come in various materials and qualities; I got a fiberglass one in a sand color that's pretty nice. The lip is high enough to keep the mess in, but not high enough to get in the way -- below the top of the stones, if I remember correctly.

Slipperyness is a problem, although they are designed to be not terribly slippery. I bought a roll of kitchen shelf liner in the grocery store. It's a rubberized thing with holes, and it's washable. Rubbermaid, I think. Just cut it to size. I use one under the tray, and one on top.

This system will contain the mess from an hour or so of sharpening (as long as I can stand at a time). They I carry the tray, with the stones and the top layer of shelf liner into the laundry room where there is a utility sink. I rinse off the tray and shelf liner, and perhaps wipe it with a cloth or brush, while I set the stones aside. Then I flatten the stones on a very coarse diamond stone (which is quick if you do it every time).

Re: Containing the mess? Water Stone Sharpening

Kevin Adams

>You received lots of good advice. I think the bottom line is "whatever works for you." I agree with Thom that Shaptons, while perfectly OK, are not the end of the rainbow as originally touted. I found them to be a hassle after a while (for the reasons Thom states) and have gone back to Nortons. I also use the LV stone pond (which does have its own shortcomings) and have it sitting on a tray from an old dish rack. One side doesn't have a lip so it does run off, but it catches most of the water that gets out of the pond.

Interestingly, I see Norton is coming out with a portable waterstone system, kind of like their multi-stone holder for oil stones except possibly more versatile with a bottom drawer for honing guide, slip stones, etc. It looks like it has potential, especially for someone who needs to travel with their stones. Here's the link (Highland Hardware is the only place I've seen it so far, although maybe Joel will offer, too). I don't know how easy it is to remove the stones and I would be tempted to not use combos but just have 1000, 4000, 8000 and then a separate two-sided diamond stone for flattening/rough grinding.

http://www.highlandwoodworking.com/index.asp?PageAction=VIEWPROD&ProdID=7699

Kevin

Re: Containing the mess? Water Stone Sharpening

Edward in Vancouver

>Have a copy Of Ian Kirby's "sharpening with water stones", who also advocates the use of separate sharpening table at the right hieght. I had just built a saw bench (Shop notes, I think..) and made myself a little table that sits on top of the saw bench. The table is made so that a restaurant stainless steel 1/2 insert pan (about 2" deep, by 8" by 12")fits in, and can be removed as needed, twin sets of wood "L" shaped bars rest on top and run lengthwise across this pan. In one set of rails rests a Norton truing stone, and the other is spaced to accept my 800 and 1000/4000 stones. The table also includes a restaurant 1/3 insert /steel pan (about 6" deep by 12" by 4") with a snap-tight lid, in this pan my stones are submersed in water. (In my "other life" I'm a Chef, hence the restaurant equipment...) Whenever I need to sharpen, I take the stone out of the smaller pan of water, true it if necesary, set it between the wood rails, and all the dirty water falls directly into the pan below. I also have a ketchup-type squeezebottle of water that I flush the stones off with as I sharpen, and this too falls into the pan. When the pan gets full I can remove it and toss the water out, but I usually get lazy and let the dirty water evaporate and vacuum up the resulting grit instead. No wet messy floors or work areas. This sharpening table sits on the saw bench and can be removed when I need the saw bench, for me space is an issue, I only have 1/3 of a 2 car garage. _

Re: Containing the mess? Water Stone Sharpening

Moses Yoder in White Pigeon, MI

>If there was an easy / inexpensive way to flatten the Shaptons, I am pretty sure people would be flocking to them. My Norton water stones cost only a little bit less than the shaptons, but I can flatten them with a 50 cent piece of sandpaper. But I guess if they could be flattened easily they wouldn't be very hard ;)

Re: Wow, thanks for all the input!

Ernie Miller

>How about a cafiteria tray you know the type that you carry your plate and glass on when you go to a buffett. that would work good. I have a dedicated sharpening tool cleaning room that I use with a slop sink in it. That said I am still old school and use vintage oil stones I do have a couple older watter stones but they seem softer and dish aloot faster. Sharpening is a pretty simple task and so many people seem to go over the edge looking for the ultimate sharp when no matter how sharp you get the plane it is dulled considerably the first stroke on wood and is back to that place that still sharp just not stressed over that most any one can achive easily with a couple good stones.