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First "roll your own plane" -- LH skew rebate

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First "roll your own plane" -- LH skew rebate

#1

First "roll your own plane" -- LH skew rebate

Dave Mount

>Hi all -- what follows is way-too-long rumination about my first plane project. If you don�t want to suffer through that (and I wouldn�t blame you), the pic�s at the bottom, just skip on down.

For those still reading, I finally took the plunge and made my first planes (the first planes I made that is -- I have quit a stable of others that have followed me home). The goal in this project was to make a left handed skew rebate that could be used for trimming tenon cheeks. I have a couple vintage rebate planes, but they are right handed (I think I'm using the handedness term correctly; the leading edge of the skew is on the right, the escapement on the left) and so am I. I don�t own an iron rabbeting block, bench, or shoulder plane. What I wanted was a rebate with the leading edge of the skew on the left, so I could use it with my right hand with the workpiece held in my left hand against a bench hook, and the skew would pull the plane tight against the tenon shoulder.

My "training" consisted of the viewing the Todd Herhli (sp?) video on making hollows and rounds, and reading Whelan's book on making hand planes. I should also give some credit to looking at Scott Post�s old site, though that seems to have disappeared. Neither cover this exact plane (though Whelan has a right-handed skew dado, which is close), but they give enough of the basics to figure it out. Whelan actually tells you not to start with a skew plane, probably for good reason, but that's what I wanted so that's what I made. My major cheat was to split the blank and cut the wedge mortise as an open mortise � the alignment dowels give that sin against tradition away. I don�t have planemaker�s floats, much less and skewed floats, and didn�t want to commit the time initially to making some (though I did buy the O1 to do so). In retrospect, I think that was the right choice; I was facing enough challenges as it was.

I made two planes figuring I'd screw up at least one, but I didn't screw up either. . .well, maybe what I should say is that neither is any more screwed up than the other! They are made of birch, just because that's the only close grained hardwood that I had in at least semi QS thick stock of sufficient width. The grain is not perfectly QS nor is it perfectly straight, but that�s what I had. The wedges are cherry. They are standard molding plane dimensions, 9 x 3.5 inches and slightly less than 1.375" wide. The width was largely determined by the width of the iron stock I had (1.5"), which makes for a slightly narrower plane because of the skew. I thought I wanted it wide to get the most registration on the workpiece and to maximize the length of tenon I could shave in one pass. I�m now thinking that may not have been a wise decision (see below).

According to Whelan, the volute, or whatever the escapement shape should be called, was traditionally cut with a special reamer, which I don�t have (I have a LV reamer, but the taper isn�t nearly as sharp as you find in these planes). My solution was to cut a series of holes of increasing depths with Forstner bits, using the same tangent point on the bed angle instead of the same center. I cleaned up the residual �steps� with a gouge. That gives you a �skewed cone�.

The irons were made from 1/8" by 1.5" O1 I bought off the net. After shaping, I oil hardened using two propane torches and tempered in the kitchen oven. According to all my reading I should have gotten a light straw color at between 325 and 350F, but I had to go for about an hour at a maximum of 375 F to get a light straw (started lower and raised the temp after a half hour). Both the oven dial and a separate oven thermometer agreed that the temp was at 375, but maybe both were equally off. The irons might be the most successful part of the process, they take and seem to hold a pretty good edge. Fitting a skewed iron is a bit of a pain, particularly because I made the tang a pretty close fit to the wedge mortise, so there isn�t a lot of lateral adjustment.

I made the planes originally with a fairly tight mouth. However, cutting across the grain as you are on a tenon cheek, I found the narrow throat choked almost immediately � this operation doesn�t make nice curlies the way a long-grain cut does. I had to recut the breast line to address this, but it did seem to fix it. I seem to remember a while back someone posting something about mouth size not mattering much for skewed planes (Derek Cohen, was that you?), I hope that�s true.

Having tested the planes a little, I�d give myself an A for the irons, a B for appearance, and a C for function. Although the irons are very solidly bedded, fully supported and well aligned with the wedge mortise, the iron tends to chatter if I take anything but a super, super light cut. My guess is that this is because of the combo of a relatively wide iron (about 1.44") and a relatively narrow tang � about 5/16. I think the lateral pressure created by having a skewed iron causes a small lateral deflection of the iron, which then springs back creating chatter. The narrow tang likely exacerbates this problem. The narrow tang (the vintage examples I have have a tang about 1/3 of the flag width) was the result of wheedling two irons out of a 9" piece of stock. In retrospect, I think this may have been penny wise and pound foolish. I�m tempted to take one of the two planes and try cutting it down to less than an inch wide and see if the performance improves. I�d be interested to hear anyone�s suggestions on fine tuning the plane�s performance re: chatter. I shouldn�t make too much of this � if the planes are very finely set, they do pretty well, and most tenon fitting would be done with a fine set.

The other disappointment was that the plane�s geometry/ergonomics don�t lend it to the one-handed use I had planned on. If you place your hand on the heel, it is too far back and it�s very hard to register the toe of the plane in the same plane as the tenon cheek and maintain that orientation through the stroke. If you clamp the workpiece and use it two handed it is easy to maintain registration � but one of the things I was hoping for was the quick test-trim-retest cycle that just using a bench hook would give. One rather non-traditional approach I�m thinking about is to drill a hole through the body behind the wedge mortise that I�d put my middle finger through, like the LV shoulder plane. I think this more secure grip would give me much better control over the plane. I need to take a couple chunks of 2x4 and experiment with this idea. Anyone else done this?

How long did it take? A couple full days counting all the steps, including all the metalwork, and a bunch of testing and fine tuning. I�m sure it would go a fair amount faster once you started to get a feel for what the fussy parts are and where you can just cruise worry free. Also, making a skew plane increases the mental gymnastics substantially. But just the same, I�d say that if you buy a wooden plane from Steve Knight, Clark and Williams, or whoever, they�re probably not getting rich off you.

Bottom line, it was fun building them and I expect I�ll be building more in the future. If you�ve been thinking about it, hope this gives you a shove.

Best,

Dave


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Re: First "roll your own plane" -- LH skew rebate

#2

Re: Pic 2 

Dave Mount

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Re: First "roll your own plane" -- LH skew rebate

#3

Re: Pic 3 

Dave Mount

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Re: First "roll your own plane" -- LH skew rebate

#4

Re: First "roll your own plane" -- LH skew rebate

Tom Colligan

>Really nice work, Dave. That's a real accomplishment.

Re: First "roll your own plane" -- LH skew rebate

#5

SWEET! Now...

Scott Burr in Ben Lomond, CA

>Show us some curlies comming out of them!

Re: First "roll your own plane" -- LH skew rebate

#6

I love skew planes!

jim reed @ tallahassee

>Those look great. As for function, I agree that the tang is a tad small. I think it should be at least twice as wide as it is now. Chatter generally means lack of stiffness. The fix is more metal--a thicker blade, a chip breaker, or a wider tang. Ulmia used a chipbreaker on their shoulder plane and the iron was thicker than 1/8". For a blade this wide, I would prefer 5/32 or 3/16. Keep up the good work. As you know, skew planes rock!

Re: First "roll your own plane" -- LH skew rebate

#7

Re: First "roll your own plane" -- LH skew rebate

Dean Lapinel

>Bravo!!!

I think you were to hard on yourself with the appearance grade. I have officially changed that to an A. As far as performance only you can grade that and I'm hoping someone will make additional comments.

If the performance improves with any modifications would you please post again?

Inspiring!

Thanks

Dean

Re: First "roll your own plane" -- LH skew rebate

#8

Re: First "roll your own plane" -- LH skew rebate

Todd O. Cronkhite Maine Native, Presently Away

>Dave,

I agree with Dean on the apperance score, I think they look good. Perhaps they don't function as you'd like, but hey, you learned TONS on what to do, and what not to do with the making of these two planes, so don't beat yourself up too hard. At least you've got this far, which is miles ahead of what I *haven't* done. I watched Todd Herrli tape--once, and it about killed me. Seemed to me he went on and on and on and on. didn't help that I was sleepy that night either I'm sure. Guess I need to watch it again if these are the results of it.

I'm sure you'll get your "bugs" worked out shortly, but even still you're added to the list of toolmaker in my book.

Todd O.

Re: First "roll your own plane" -- LH skew rebate

#9

Re: Appearances

Dave Mount

>Dean/Todd--

Thanks for your kind words on the planes' appearance. However, remember these images were squashed down to about 32K for posting -- amazing what that'll hide! Plus, I really don't like the glaring dowel ends. If I do that construction again, I'll cut the dowels short and make some face grain plugs to cover the holes.

Thanks anyway. . .I definitely did learn a lot and am already laying plans for the next attempts. Steve Knight makes a cool shoulder-rebate type plane that looks more like a skewed smoother -- seems like just the ticket. . .

Best,

Dave

Re: First "roll your own plane" -- LH skew rebate

#10

Re: Herrli video

Dave Mount

>Hey Todd--

Funny you should say that about the Herrli video. While I agree that there is little left to the imagination (except how long to leave the iron in the toaster oven!), my reaction to it was much more positive, because of the detail. Really broke it down into manageable steps.

Maybe the reason I reacted to it differently is that I had very little foreknowledge about how it was done. If you already knew the basics, I can see how it might come off as tedious.

Best,

Dave

Re: First "roll your own plane" -- LH skew rebate

#11

Re: Herrli video

Todd O. Cronkhite Maine Native, Presently Away

>nope, I had no prior knowledge of how this was done. Just seemed to me to be going into way to much minute detail, but than again, as I stated I was quite tired that night, and therefor my perception may be quite out of whack. I'll re-watch it tomorrow morning and report back. Hate to bad mouth this video and indirectly cheat somebody out of a good learning tool.

T.O.

Re: First "roll your own plane" -- LH skew rebate

#12

Re: Herrli video

Todd O. Cronkhite Maine Native, Presently Away

>Well drats, I can't locate my copy of this video. I may of loaned to my buddy down here. Between him or I it'll turn up I'm sure. Too bad too, because it's a bit chilly this a.m. and is perfect video watching time.

T.O.

Re: First "roll your own plane" -- LH skew rebate

#13

Re: Herrli video

Pam Niedermayer - Austin, TX

>Well I have to say this is the most bone headed assessment of a video I've read yet, Todd. Herrli did a marvelous job of describing and showing how to make hollows and rounds, and by extension many more planes, including irons and floats. Boring? Only if you don't want to make planes.

Pam

Re: First "roll your own plane" -- LH skew rebate

#14

Re: Herrli video

Todd O. Cronkhite Maine Native, Presently Away

>Well Pam, you would'nt be the first to call me a bone-head. Sometimes folks are right, and sometimes they're not.

I did find my copy of the video shortly before having to leave for work. Seems I looked right at it TWICE and didn't see it. Like I said, I will re-watch[ just to be fair, as like I said I was overly tired the first time I saw it] it while I am well rested and post my reaction to it. Bear in mind however that I will pull no punches either way.

Todd O.

Re: First "roll your own plane" -- LH skew rebate

#15

Re: Herrli video

Pam Niedermayer - Austin, TX

>I'm not asking you to pull any punches, Todd, nor do I think you're really bone-headed; but I just couldn't let the impression that Herrli's video is long and boring, no good, stand without contra argument.

Pam

Re: First "roll your own plane" -- LH skew rebate

#16

Re: Herrli video

Todd O. Cronkhite Maine Native, Presently Away

>All's good Pam, matter of fact, I'm fixing to hit the play button on it and give it another spin.

Don't let you're guard down tho, for I can be a bone head extrodinair when I set my mind to it. ;~)

T.O.

Re: First "roll your own plane" -- LH skew rebate

#17

Re: First "roll your own plane" -- LH skew rebate

paul womack

> I watched Todd Herrli tape--once, and it about killed me. Seemed to me he went on and on and on and on.

Well, I'll settle for over long and over detailed compared to short and lacking information when it comes to instructional videos.

I admit it would be GREAT if they were attractive and interesting too, but hell, that's what movies are for!!!

BugBear

Re: First "roll your own plane" -- LH skew rebate

#18

Re: First "roll your own plane" -- LH skew rebate

Dean Lapinel

>Dave I'd love to hear if you can tweak the planes so that their function is more satisfying.

Dean

Re: First "roll your own plane" -- LH skew rebate

#19

Re: I'll let you know

Dave Mount

>I'll do that Dean -- I'm thinking one of the two planes I made will give its life to science this weekend.

I had an offline with Jim Reed and he was strongly encouraging me to try a thicker iron, which I may do. I'm also considering just making another plane with a thicker iron, a wider tang, and a nicker as well. I'm thinking about a low tech nicker made from 1/16" x 1/2" steel that would ride in a vertical dado in the left face of the plane (in fact, the steel is on the way!). I thought I'd just slot the center and secure it with a pan head screw for now. If it works well, I might worry about a more elegant way to fasten it.

Another thing I want to work on is a way to hold the plane a little more forward to get a better grip for one-handed use.

Regardless, I will report back.

Best,

Dave

Re: First "roll your own plane" -- LH skew rebate

#20

nicker

Paul M. in San Diego

>Hi Dave,

If you do add a nicker to one of those beauties, then here's a point to consider. Please make sure to place it as close as possible to the edge of the blade. I have some planes where the nicker is significantly in front of the blade (by 2 or more inches), and this exaggerates any inconsistency in the attack angle of the plane. I find that I do not like using the nickers on these planes.

Just my humble opinion...

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