LN Chisels Chipping

Np, you're the first one.

Paul Kierstead

>

Re: LN Chisels Chipping

Glenn Madsen near San Francisco

>My LN stuff works great. I was thinking the other day, reading the article in a recent FWW mag on TLN, that I had a lot more LN gear than I ever intended to purchase (had there actually been a master plan, that is.)

Chisels. Mortise chisel. Various handplanes. Dovetail and crosscut saws. Scrapers. Tool rolls.

There may be stuff that I don't really _need_, but everything works. At least for me. Hope you get yours sorted out soon.

Re: LN Chisels Chipping

Matt Gumaer

>The chisels are the only LN product I've heard any negative feedback on. I wouldn't judge their other products based on your experience with the chisels. Based on reputation, I would expect them to take care of your complaint (maybe trade in the chisels for a nice plane?). When they first came out, there seemed to be a number of chipping complaints but I thought they had been take care of.

Matt

Re: LN Chisels Chipping

Jack Guzman from Maine

>I've never had a problem with my LN chisels and I use them regular and hard. When I pare I use two cherries with a shallower bevel.Good luck with yours.---Jack

Re: LN Chisels Chipping

Christopher Schwarz

>Tony,

I've been using Lie-Nielsen chisels since the first prototypes. I also had some chipping with the A2 cryo, and the Lie-Nielsen folks are right to suggest a steeper bevel (I use a 30� primary and a 35� secondary).

However, here's something else I learned as I researched cryo: When tools are cryo'ed (not a word; don't use it at home), they retain a bit of surface material that is poor. Usually this is removed when the tool is shaped to its final dimensions. But it is worth your while to grind the tools back a bit. Remove 1/32" of steel at the bevel. Then re-hone (at 35�). Then go to work. See what happens. This fixed (totally fixed) a couple tools I was having issues with.

If it doesn't fix your chipping, ask for an exchange. I promise you that these are good chisels. I wouldn't trade mine for anything.

If you have any further questions, don't hesitate to contact me off-line.

Chris

Re: LN Chisels Chipping

David Galloway

>I would share in the positive opinions above. I have chisels from LN that are expensive, but are a treat to work with. The other tools that I have bought from LN are superb. I was lucky enough to visit the shop in Maine and came away even more impressed. Sorry you are having some issue with you chisels. Think twice before you blow the LN product line off. You might be missins some of your best opportunities.

That is not satisfactory to me

Denis Ch�nard, Orl�ans, Ont.

>If I have to re-grind a bevel-edge chisel at 35 degrees, it becomes basically useless for the kind of work a BE chisel is used for, the angle runs into mortising chisel territory.

Rob Cosman (the Canadian distributor for LN) told me that he grinds back the LN chisels at 17 degrees, wonderful for chopping dovetails and for paring. He also says that the LNs are the first chisels he's found that can be ground at that low an angle, and hold its edge. Granted, Cosman is a good salesman, but then again he demonstrates the tools at WW shows, so I won't question his credibility...

I have one LN chisel (1/2"), I bought it to see how it compares with my old Marples and the Japanese chisels that I've bought recently. I'm quite happy with the LN and might buy more in the future. Mine doesn't exhibit any chipping tendencies, I expect that from a chisel that goes for $50 or so.

I suspect that while transiting to their new facilities, some LN products suffered from lower QC. This is not the first time I hear about LN chisels chipping, if I were the recipient of such a chisel I'd ask right away for a replacement.

DC

Guaranteed for life

Jim in Burlington On

>I haven't had any problems with the bench or mortice chisels. I was thinking about ordering the new sizes to fill the complete set out. I'd get any that you wern't happy with replaced.

Re: That is not satisfactory to me

Christopher Schwarz

>Denis,

Interesting. Thanks for chiming in.

I have not found any A2 chisels (or plane irons) to be super at low grind angles. I find that high carbon does better at low angles. (This ain't science; just my experience with a lot of tools.)

Also, I have found no problems paring at 35�. Though I do most paring with a 1-1/4" paring chisel.

Chris

Just one question Tony...

Scott Burr in Ben Lomond, CA

>Watcha chopping?

OK, OK...

Two questions...

How you chopping it?

Good questions!

Tony - Memphis

>I maily use hand tools to finish up machined surfaces. I have only used these on walnut and some mahogany and basswood. No mallets.

No much hard duty far as I'm concerned. Actually, my cheapie Bicks from Home Depot hold up as well. They aren't as sexy though!

Tony

Thanks all

Tony - Memphis

>I'm definitely going to follow up with LN again. I was just doing research to see if maybe it was just me. I own several of their tools. And don't get me wrong, I like them. I guess my point was that I am not seeing the value of spending the extra money for something I just want to use. When I bought my rabbet block from them, the iron had to be replaced. Not the kinds of things I expect when I spend the kind of money they command.

Tony

Hmmmm...

Scott Burr in Ben Lomond CA

>Sounds like you got a bad one. I'd return it. Sorry to hear about your problems wit LN. I never had a problem with their tools.

Re: Thanks all

dave caudill

>Tony I have had good luck with my LN chisels and have had no problems. Of course I always advocate old chisels even though I have a set of LN chisels and find them to be one of the few new chisels I would purchase. I agree that one should not have to grind them to 35 degrees to avoid chipping. I also agree that I might expect a cheap chisel from Home Depot to chip and would not be surprised. However a $50 chisel. I think I would probably react in the same fashion you are. And if a chisel chips in Walnut or basswood it sure isn't going t ohold up to cherry, maple or any number of the other hardwoods that are tougher on edge tools.

On the other hand if you call LN they will pretty much do whatever you ask if you are dissatified and that is a pretty good policy. Someday I will share my experience I had a few years ago with LN and specifically Tom Lie-Nielsen. Very quality individuals and Tom is a class act. I'm sure they will make it right for you.

Dave

I'll buy them!!!

John Hoffman

>Send me an email if you want to get rid of them. I am planning on getting some and will take them off your hands.

Regards

John H

White Pine, Poplar and Tulip

David Charlesworth

>Denis,

I have discussed this with Rob.

He is grinding at 17 degrees and honing a little steeper say 20-22 degrees. He does this on small chisel for removing the last sliver of waste from between his dovetails. He has already removed the majority with a fretsaw and has very little left to cut. The cuts go half way through and are not deep.

The chisels are holding up well enough in the soft timbers he uses for drawer sides, I predict they would not hold up in Cocobolo.

I find that angles chosen for chisel edges need changing to suit the hardness of wood and method of use.

For general purpouses, I grind mine at 23 degrees, raise wire edge at 33 degrees and polish at 35 degrees. These will both chop and pare in harder woods. Changing the two honing angles is easily done as I keep the honing bevel very narrow. This also means I get seven or eight sharpenings before needing to re grind.

I find the chisels excellent.

David Charlesworth

Re: That is not satisfactory to me

Greg Humphrey

>I have several Lie-Nielsen chisels, and use them primarily with cherry and poplar. I have not experienced any chipping problems. They are of fine quality, just like my LN planes and saws. I would echo the comments of others to take any quesitons to the LN people and they will make it right.

Re: White Pine, Poplar and Tulip

Denis Ch�nard, Orl�ans, Ont.

>Thanks for clarifying things up David, with all the traffic around Rob's booth he didn't have much time to explain his approach in detail...

Your response raises two questions:

- is the fact that you keep your secondary bevels small somewhat equivalent to a larger, shallower one?

- as far as I know, most bevel edge chisels are sold with a 25 degree primary bevel. Why is it that the LN seem to "need" a steeper one? I plan to re-grind my sole LN chisel at 25 degrees and see how it holds up, I know that my old Marples seem to hold fine at that angle.

I do like the LN chisel, BTW.

Thanks,

The other DC

Your Marples aren't A2

Paul Kierstead

>

Re: White Pine, Poplar and Tulip

mikew

>My feeling is because people tend to complain when they either have to do a secondary to their choice of bevels [complaining of "unnecessary" work before use, ignorance, or shear laziness], or feel they need to fully regrind to a higher angle to accomplish a single bevel at their higher angle. By just shipping at a higher angle, they get around most complaints.

Like DC writes, different angle for different woods and work. My paring chisels are relatively low angles, my general purpose bench chisels higher, my mortise chisels yet higher. What type of steel they are made from doesn't matter to me.

Take care, Mike

Re: Your Marples aren't A2

Denis Ch�nard, Orl�ans, Ont.

>True, but I have a few A2 plane blades with 25 degree bevels, and they seem to hold fine. Granted, a plane blade isn't used the same way as a chisel, still...

My supposedly brittle Japanese chisels are also beveled at 25 degrees, and hold their edge just fine. But they're not A2.

And, LN's own A2 plane blades come from the factory sharpened at 25 degrees in their bevel down planes...

DC

Re: Your Marples aren't A2

mikew

>"And, LN's own A2 plane blades come from the factory sharpened at 25 degrees in their bevel down planes..."

To be accurate, yes they are factory sharpened to 25 degrees--but they recommend adding a secondary bevel of a couple degrees.

Taking a few thousandths shaving is akin to paring only. If I bought LN chisels and was only going to use them for paring--similar to Cosman--I too would sharpen my LN chisels at a low angle.

Take care, Mike

Re: White Pine, Poplar and Tulip

David Charlesworth

>Denis,

Not sure, is the answer!

I keep my grinding fairly low, as this allows me to re sharpen/hone, at least seven times before returning to the grinder. (It is also quick to change the honing angles for different styles of work.

The honing bevel stays fairly narrow at all times, though it grows in width during the sharpening cycle, from ultra fine to no more that 2mm about 3/32".

This approach results in fast re honing.

Getting a wire edge on an 800g waterstone, takes one or two pull strokes only after a regrind. (NB I never regrind right to the edge unless there was a big chip, which practically never happens).

Second resharpening may take three or four strokes,

Third, five or six strokes, etc etc

Polishing the tip takes only 3 gentle caressing strokes on the polishing stone, because I raise the angle by 2 degrees, for carbon steel. For A2 cryo I use 4 gentle polishing strokes.

Chris Schwarz wrote in his review of my chisel sharpening DVD that the astonishing thing was how few strokes I took when resharpening.

This is a byproduct of the somewhat radical/controversial three bevel system which I have developed. This system is pretty much dependant on the use of the Eclipse type side clamping jigs, (Though it could also be done freehand, which is how Rob Cosman is doing it).

A single polished bevel may be the best in theory but it is slower to produce, as metal has to be removed from a larger area by slower methods.

I do not begrudge the few seconds it takes to use this aid and it guarantees repeatability. My students get to work with chisels as sharp as mine from day one.

I believe that Steve Elliott's plane blade research is suggesting that 33 degrees is a good polishing angle for A2 cryo plane blades. I polish at 35 degrees, coarse stone at 33 degrees.

best wishes,

David Charlesworth www.davidcharlesworth.co.uk