Pencil/Cutting Gauges & Joyce Again!

Re: Pencil/Cutting Gauges & Joyce Again!

Stephen Wiseman

>Here's the other picture! Unfortunately the pin is not sharp enough (the photo, not the pin)to see David's brilliant pin "design". No, I don't have stock in GMC publications, his books are just more important to my development than any others, including Joyce!

Stephen

Attn: Adam Cherubini/Chris Schwarz *LINK*

Andrew F in Australia

>Hi Steven,

The marking knife is a more accurate way of transferring dovetails, but it's fiddly, especially working to a fine scribe line on a dark wood. The saw is on the bench, quick and easy, and, with experience, is more than accurate enough. (think gallery work vs utilitarian work.)

The saw is at-hand and leaves a clearly visible mark.

What the drawing in Joyce is (I dug out my copy,) is a joiner's striking knife. If you search the hand tool archives (halfway down the brown/maroon bar to the left of the page,) for ... striking knife ... you'll have more info than you need.

I've linked to the plan of a striking knife that uses an old power hacksaw blade, or a bit of high strength steel strapping would also be suitable.

But, Adam and Chris recreated a striking knife and wrote about it in Popular Woodworking. I can remember a link to an article being posted, but I can't find it in the archives - Adam/Chris, do you know (or can you remember) what title you posted it under??


plan for marking/striking knife

Re: Attn: Adam Cherubini/Chris Schwarz

Stephen Wiseman

>Thanks Andrew,

I like your knife and find the vintage drawing interesting. I'm a Paddington Bear fan as well!

Stephen

Can These Plastic Screws Be Replaced?

Tom Colligan

>I have 4 or 5 of these beech marking gauges with these awfully gawdy plastic thumb screws. A 5/16th's wood insert fits in but I can't seem to find a brass thumb screw anywhere. MSC expects you to buy a minimum of 10 and who knows just what they will look like?

I thought of writing Marples to purchase upgraded screws as they are included on their some of their rosewood gauges but I don't know how to contact them. (I believe they may have been acquired by a US company, Irwin.)

Thanks for any suggestions.

I use an OLFA snap off craft knife to mark D/Tails

Andrew F in Australia

>

Re: Pencil/Cutting Gauges & Joyce Again! *LINK*

vlparisian - Warm & Rainy Houston

>Stephen you may want to vist this site. Norse Woodsmith. Excellent site with some fun ideas and projects. (If I only had a bunch more time, I'd be trying it all.)

Regards

Victor


Norse Woodsmith

Not sure I can help and marking tools

Adam Cherubini

>Stephen et al,

I own the words, but not the images or the layout. So I don't have nor have I the right to post that article as a pdf. What I do have are the dimensions of my knife in power point and a few blurry photos illustrating its use (those were Chris' hands in the article). I'm too tired to fuss with making them small enough to post here, but I'd be happy to email them to someone who will.

In regards to marking gauges, I think its tough to improve on the design Dean explored in a recent PW Arts & Mysteries article. I've made a couple gauges based on that article and I really like them. I made some out of beech, others mahogany. But with that sweet little captured wedge, I could see that being a very nice project in some exotic wood. Its such a nice woodworkery kind of project, if you know what I mean. I think its the all wooden moving parts that attract me. And I really feel as tho its beneficial to be able to operate the thing with one hand. That's a design feature I've never seen duplicated. The head shape is nice too, and you don't see it much either.

I'm a big fan of marking tools- I think I have a greater attachment to my marking tools than any other single or group of tools. I'm happy to say I don't feel self conscious admitting that here. Anywhere else, I'd be correctly identified as a FREAK!

Adam

Re: Can These Plastic Screws Be Replaced?

Joel

>Marples of marking gauge fame is a different company than the record/marples folks.

founded in 1840 Joseph Marples is still run by a Marples.

The threads on the plastic thumbscrews are differnt than the

brass thumbscrews - so you can't just switch screws.

Re: Not sure I can help and marking tools

David Charlesworth

>Adam,

Since getting the marking out exact and precise, is the second of three vital steps for fine work, I think your love of marking tools is highly appropriate. I am happy to be a fully paid up member of this club.

This area is the one causes my students lots of trouble.

P.S. not a great fan of the striking knife, that pointed awl always seemed a bit too close to the eye/face for my liking.

Have just been given a wonderfully delicate awl from Blue Spruce.

David Charlesworth

Tutorial for a marking knife  *LINK*

Derek Cohen (in Perth, Australia)

>To add more on Joyce - sorry! I read last night were it says on page 94 "Good knives can also be made from old hacksaw blades.....which is more positive than the tip of the dove-tail saw customarily used"!! In the drawing (page 93-3(B)) it shows a hacksaw blade without the teeth ground off but I'm not sure if he intended the hacksaw blade to be left with teeth or not?!

I can support David Charlesworth's recommendation of a marking knife from Dave Jeske (Blue Spruce). His, and those of Dave Anderson (Chester Toolworks), are really great.

The ideal marking knife for dovetails needs to have a blade as thin as the saw kerf, long enough to mark a 3/4" board, and yet stiff that it remains a reliable tool.

The knives I make follow these ideals. Here is a set I made as a Christmas present.

I use jigsaw blades for the knife blade and spade bit shafts for the awls. If you wish to make your own, follow the link below.

Regards from Perth

Derek


A Knife for Marking Dovetails

Re: Pencil/Cutting Gauges & Joyce Again!

Stephen Wiseman

>Thanks Victor, Interesting site!

Re: Tutorial for a marking knife

mikew

>Having been a recipient of one of Derek's knives sometime back, I can say they work great!

Thanks, Derek for writing the tutorial and you, too, Wiktor for hosting it.

Take care, happy new year everyone...Mike

Re: Tutorial for a marking knife

Stephen Wiseman

>Thanks Derek!

Beautiful Knives!I believe I'll try one of the styles like your making knife for now (from Blue Spruce or Chester) but keep your instructions for the future if I decide to make my own (after I make some furniture!). Very kind to post as I always wondered how to make the ferrules!

I picked up a traditional scribe/marking knife when in Williamsburg(at the furniture shop or forge - can't remember) when there for an architectural workshop and the pointed awl end did scare me a bit so it was more of a souvenir for me anyway.

Thanks again,

Stephen

Re: Tutorial for a marking knife

Stephen Wiseman

>Derek,

I'm assumming these type knives have to be sharpened free hand?

Thanks!

Stephen

Re: Not sure I can help and marking tools

mikew

>"...I think your love of marking tools is highly appropriate. I am happy to be a fully paid up member of this club."

Gee guys, I just looked. I only have 7 marking knives. Four are properly Japanese knives, single bevel, L/R handed.

The two larger ones were hand made by a local friend. Wonderful knives. I use these for more than marking. The heft is incredible. The small one in the picture is one of the type Woodcraft sells and I have had them for years. Does show the scale of the real deals.

The other 3 are of the single bevel, spear point type. Onne is fine, which Derek made me. The others I use for marking larger, carcass-sized joints.

"Have just been given a wonderfully delicate awl from Blue Spruce."

Give Dave Jeske's bevel edged chisels a try sometime.

Wonderful for cleaning out DTs, hold an adge better than any other chisel I have owned. He also makes skewed versions...

Take care, Mike

Re: Tutorial for a marking knife

Todd O. Cronkhite Maine Native, Presently Away

>Hey Derek, what's that spear looking tool you got holding those knives up? I thought it was a chisel, but the more I look at it the end looks like it comes to a triangular point.

Todd O.

Todd, it's a 1/8" mortice chisel.

Derek Cohen (in Perth, Australia)

>

"dangerous" tools

Adam Cherubini

>David,

Don't you think it kinda funny that you would think nothing of passing your hands across shapers or jointers and happily feed wood into your guardless table saws, but you're squeemish about a striking knife?

I think its funny what makes us squeemish and how irrational it all is. Power tools scare me to death- the noise, the dust, they panic me- just being in the same room with them- they're unpredictable says I. NOT TO BE TRUSTED!

That said, fear may be irrational but I've met many woodworkers with missing fingers and never a one who lost an eye to his striking knife!

Adam

PS- I'm not picking on you David. Many people echoed the exact same sentiment when that article first ran.

Thanks for response, Adam

Andrew F in Australia

>I could recall that either Chris or you put out the final draft of the article publicly - just couldn't remember where.

I appreciate your help and input here.

Thankyou, and wishing you the best for the New Year.

Cheers,

Andrew

Funny... I feel the same way David does...

Scott Burr in windy/raining Ben Lomond, CA

>So does Kingshott and a few others.

Scott, Who will never make a striking knife.

Re: irrational?

Pam Niedermayer - Austin, TX

>First, hardly anyone who uses table saws and shapers thinks nothing of it, a few maybe, but most are very careful.

Second, there's nothing irrational about avoiding a sharp item so close to your eye. After the years of indoctrination our parents give us, it's amazing anyone can even talk about doing this. It's sort of like running with scissors.

Third, the reason you don't hear about points in eyes are probably because no one uses them, many more use table saws.

Fourth, given a choice between losing a finger and losing an eye, I'd choose the finger, keep the eye.

Pam

I'd rather not loose any parts.

Scott Burr in windy/raining Ben Lomond, CA

>

Re: I'd rather not loose any parts.

David Charlesworth

>Adam,

I agree about how irrational most of our fears are.

I think I was lucky in a strange way to have had a small circular saw accident in the year when I trained.

First finger of left hand engaged the top of a wobble saw. Entirely my own fault for proceeding having heard half of a "dropping on" discussion, but not the bit about the stop!

NB Everything about that technique is now illegal in Europe and UK.

Apart from the fingernail being about 1/8" narrower than it was, I was lucky. Ever since have tried to engage brain before using machinery. Tiredness and haste are two very dangerous enemies.

The thing that worries me about teaching machining is that it is almost impossible to appreciate the dangers of kickback, until you have seen or experienced it, which may be too late. I now demonstrate kickback on circular saw with a sheet of polystyrene and two long push sticks, a tip read in Fine Woodworking, I think.

That striking knife design is the nicest I have seen and a small protector on the awl would make me happy.

Happy new year,

David

power tool fear

VTAndy3

>Hi Adam,

I share your fear and panic about power and machine tools. The moment I'm in the room when the switch goes on, my adrenaline goes into high alert. Now, I know some professionals who use power on a daily basis -- and the funny thing is, when I've admitted my fear to them, they've all had replies like "I know just how you feel" and "Well, that's the attitude you need to work around these things," etc. It's pretty obvious what the effects of an accident could be for these guys, but I also wonder what the long-term effect of all the adrenaline and stress will be.

On the other hand, a couple days ago while shaping the head of a mallet with a block plane, I slipped and the tip of my thumb rammed into the very hard and sharp edge of the ash mallet head. A ghastly blood-blister resulted, which has since nearly completely healed. This was one week after cutting the other thumb with a bread knife. Both minor accidents happened as a result of momentary lapses of concentration -- would the adrenaline have prevented this???

-Andy