Hypothetical Question

Re: Hypothetical Question

Pam Niedermayer - Austin, TX

>Lake Tahoe is just a few miles west of Carson City.

Did they intend to go to Carson City, or was that simply where they stopped on an intended move to CA? Did they go by train?

Pam

Re: Hypothetical Question

Todd O. Cronkhite Maine Native, Presently Away

>I'd hazard the guess that he simply took his tools with him. I imagine that he had a chest, and he had it loaded onto the train and away they went.

My reasoning is: If going to a new part of the country, why take a chance of not being able to get replacement tools when you already have what you need in hand? If the wooden planes "acted up" due to the humidity changes I'm sure he was capable enough to correct them to their new environment.

That my guess anyhow.

Todd O.

Re: Hypothetical Question

Ed Mulligan, Cape Cod

>Skip -

I expect your ancestors used a toolbox to store and transport their tools. For the trip to Nevada they added a padlock, painted the final address on the outside, and shipped it via the cheapest method.

Ed

Re: Hypothetical Question

Skip in Falls Church

>"Did they intend to go to Carson City, or was that simply where they stopped on an intended move to CA? Did they go by train?" - Pam

I'm *assuming* they went there to practice carpentry although I don't know that for sure. They did have a brother/brother-in-law that lived across the border in Nevada County, California that was there before them. I can only assume he advised them on what was going on in the area before they moved.

I also don't know for sure how they got there - the possibilities are by train from Maine to Carson City or by ship to San Francisco then overland to Carson City. By ship could be ship to Panama - overland to the other side of Panama and then by ship to San Francisco or simply sailing around the Horn. I really have no idea how the two different modes of travel would impact what they took - although I suspect it would have some impact.

I actually have no idea how prevalent building ships or boats was on Lake Tahoe at the time. I'd assume that anything built there would be more boat-sized than ship-sized although I could be totally off base there. From where everyone lived, I'd *assume* they all worked in the same area doing the same type of work. Again, I could be totally wrong - I just don't know enough about what they did when in Carson City although I'm still working on that.

Skip

Re: Hypothetical Question

Skip in Falls Church

>Hi Ed,

Both your solution and Todd's would both seem to be logical. But then I look at all the stuff I've accumulated...er, collected... er, needed (that's the ticket!) over the last few years and wondered what I would do if faced with the same choice. I guess that anything that wouldn't fit in a chest could be shipped seperate and the surplus left with relatives? I know all my stuff couldn't fit in a single chest no matter how tightly I packed it. OTOH I suppose they made do with a lot less in those days. Rough carpentry wouldn't take all that many tools, I suppose and I'd guess that carpenters with life - long experience would be able to do more with less.

Skip

Re: Hypothetical Question

Mike G.

>I'm not sure if the UP RR was finished in the time frame you're talking about. They might have went as far as they could by train, then overland coach or they bought a wagon and joined a wagon train from probably St. Louis. Just a guess on my part. Also if they went by ship, they probably would've sailed around the Horn. The overland crossing at Panama was considered too dangerous, especially for women and children. HTH's and please correct me if I'm wrong.

Mike G. in SC

Re: Hypothetical Question

Moses Yoder in White Pigeon, MI

>We occasionally watch "Young Riders", so I did a little bit of reading about the Pony Express, which is why I happened to know that the first transcontinental railways were completed just shortly before your great-grandfathers big move. This leads me to believe that the completion of the railway would have been a large part of the reason why he moved. The first transcontinental railroad was completed in 1869. Times then would have been vastly different than now; today we get more tools for Christmas than a carpenter at that time would have had in his entire life. His tools probably fit in a fairly small box. Tools were very valuable, and making a plane would have taken a considerable amount of time and skill, so he probably would have packed all the tools he owned into a small chest and put it on the train. He probably would have sold the furniture and kept the tools.

Key question

Wiley Horne

>Skip,

I think the key question is how they got there. By 1870, the Union Pacific Railroad and the Central Pacific Railroad had linked up, and your kinfolks could have ridden from Chicago, through Promontory Point, Utah (where the Golden Spike had been driven in I believe 1859); onward through the Virginia City/Carson City area; and plumb through to San Francisco if desired.

The great impetus for the railroad building was the California Gold Rush in 1849, followed by discovery of the Comstock Lode (silver) in Virginia City about 20 years later. By the 1870s, Virginia City/Carson City was a booming area, and there was rail access.

I'm inclined to think they took their tools with them on the train.

Wiley

My best guess

Bob Hackett

>Based on what I`ve seen of old chests up here they most likely took most of their(iron) tools with them.The chests themselves acted as a sort of resume and alot of the ship`s carpenters got their jobs based on the skills showcased on the inside of their toolboxes.No need to think it would be otherwise in the west.

Rough carpenters used alot of the same tools that boatbuilders used,axes,adzes,planes,augers,etc.Most tradesmen bought irons for their planes and made their own wooden bodies.They also knew how to make their own handles for other edged tools.My bet is that if it didn`t fit in the chest they lost the wood,packed the iron and made new with local wood when they landed at their new jobs.

Mainely,Bob

Re: Hypothetical Question

Ed Mulligan, Cape Cod

>heh last time I moved it took two moving vans; one for the household and one for the shop. OTOH my carpenter grandfather worked out of a lightly loaded station wagon.

Ed, who has far too many tools

Carpenters can easily make more boxes. :)

Pam Niedermayer - Austin, TX

>

Re: Hypothetical Question

Skip in Falls Church

>Well, I don't know about anyone else - but I certainly confess to not being terribly focused on any partiuclar aspect of woodworking. I guess with focus and refining over time it would be possible to do a lot more with less.

Skip

Okay.......

Skip in Falls Church

>What all of you are saying makes a lot of sense. It sounds like travel by train with the tools in their chests was the most likely method of transport. It's just that I kept looking at what I have and trying to think of how I could get it in a chest for transport. I guess if I looked at it with an eye to what I would need to accomplish a specific set of tasks - I could probably reduce what I would need to what would fit in a chest. I wouldn't want to! But I guess I could. :)

Skip

As a group, we own way too many tools

Bill Houghton, Sebastopol, CA

>My opinion: they're so inexpensive now, whether in the form of rust or new, that hobby woodworkers own more tools than pros of two generations ago. My grandfather supported himself for probably 30 years with a set of tools that would (not counting the power tools) have fit in a box quite handily, and he did carpentry, rough and trim, and furniture making.

Transcontinental railroad

Bill Houghton, Sebastopol, CA

>The final connection for the transcontinental was 1869, but many of the California/Nevada connections were made earlier in the 1860's, so by 1873, rail travel would have been (relatively) routine.

Re: Okay.......

Glenn Madsen near San Francisco

>Have you seen the pictures of the Studley toolchest? Made by a piano builder, over the course of his career, there are so many tools, densely packed, yet readily available, that it often puts our ways to shame.

Good for you to be looking into your ancestors' ways!

Thanks everyone

Skip in Falls Church

>Hi Glenn,

Yes, I've seen the Studley Tool chest - and I'm pretty good at packing things pretty densely myself. I think the real hurdle I had to get over is that I'm a hobbyist and don't specialize at anything. So I have a lot of special tools that my whatever great grandfather wouldn't have had - or probably even seen a need for. I suspect that Bill is right, most of us own too many tools - probably because they are so cheap. I could probably supply two or three carpenters of that period out of the tools I have which is really kind of mind boggling to me.

In doing genealogy on and off for something like 20 or 25 years, I keep finding carpenters both on my Dad's side, the primary source, and on my mom's side. My dad's side seems to be flooded with carpenters for some reason. I picked up the bug for working wood long before I was aware of any of this. For some reason I was always attracted to hand tools.

I wonder if I can blame this addiction on something outside of me? :)

Skip

Re: Transcontinental railroad

Mike G.

>I should've done a little research instead of relying on my sometimes faulty memory. Guess that's what happens when you get older, eh? Thanks for the correction.

Mike G. in SC

Re: Transcontinental railroad

Pam Niedermayer - Austin, TX

>I always remember 19th century dates by their proximity to the Civil War.

Pam

Don't know where you're located

Bill Houghton, Sebastopol, CA

>but Californians get the Transcontinental Railroad drummed into our heads in school, since before the railroad, we were pretty far from civilization (meaning: the big Eastern cities).

Even so, I had to look it up - I knew it was not much after the Civil War, but couldn't remember how many years.

Re: We do a little research ourselves

Glenn Madsen near San Francisco

>My father's brothers were finish carpenters, his father a blacksmith. My dad graduated high school, and repaired airplanes during WWII & Korea at Alameda Naval Airstation. There's more than tradition - there's talent and training.

What we do for enjoyment, and what we do for a living can be seperate in this generation, and for that, we are grateful. I build huge data networks for a living, and furniture for my grandchildren when I want to.