Norton 3X

Re: Norton 3X

Moses Yoder in White Pigeon, MI

>I use a hand cranked grinder for almost all of my grinding. When I am shaping blades, I dig out the electric grinder. I could not imagine wasting all the time it would take to grind a bevel by hand on a sharpening stone. The hand cranked grinder is one of the most underated tools I see in the hand tool world. If I was doing hand tool work professionally I would probably use something like the Tormek, but really, for a hobby shop the hand cranked grinder is probably the best investment I ever made. Different stones for different folks I guess ;)

Big chips

Jim in Burlington On

>If you have a big chip and need it taken out a bench grinder is the way to go. I'm no fan of 3x paper it tears far to easily and wears out pretty quick. German high quality wet dry paper works better and lasts longer than most I have tried. For really coarse hand grinding I prefer to take a belt from a belt sander 3M makes serveral different kinds and the cubic zirconium purple belts really hold up. I'm still searching for a couple of hand craked wheels grinders.

Re: Norton 3X

Jack Guzman from Maine

>What kind of stone do you have in your grinder?---Jack

ry to hollow grind then hone on stones

Michael Stadulis, in Gloucester County, NJ

>Brent,

Have you tried to use a grinder to shape your edges and then use stones to hone and polish? The hollow grind on the blade bevel gives you two points of contact with the stone which make hand honing really fast and easy......and w/o a jig. The hollow ground bevel self registers on the stone much better than a straight bevel. The hollow graind also guarantees that its far quicker to re hone an edge since you are removing steel just at the edge and heel contact points. Initially, you are probably removing 1/10 of the steel on the bevel with a hollow grind compared to a flat bevel. As you re hone, that increases until you hollow grind again. Try it out. Merry Christmas.

-Mike

Re: Hand Cranked Grinder - where to buy?

Norman (Ottawa, Ont.)

>Moses,

I read about these hand-cranked grinders but never know where to get one. Are most of them vintage, or available today?

Norman

they used to have them

VTAndy3

>at Lehman's but I contacted them and they can't get them any more. :(

-Andy

I'm skeptical

bill tindall, E. TN

>Do I understand correctly that you are grinding flat bevels on M2 at a greater than geological errosion rate with aluminium oxide? I would have to see it to believe it.

As I understand it the 3X abrasive is a 30% seeded gel aluminium oxide diluted with ordinary aluminium oxide, the advantage being better friability and hence renewed sharp edges while maintaining approximate original particle size during use. But it is still relatively soft alminium oxide abrasive.

While I have not used 60 grit I have done a lot of grinding with 80 grit zirconia sheet abrasive. On carbon steel, indeed, it is about as fast as I can do on a power grinder, given that power grinding needs to be slow to prevent burning. But even zirconia is slow on the more abrasion resistant steels, and in my hands, uselessly slow on M2 at Rc 62. Admittedly I have not tried 3X except in wheels. I would like to see a comparison between the 3X paper and zirconia abrasive, the later readily available in more convenient rolls and PSA format

The compelling disadvantages of abrasive sheet sharpening are two-fold. First, it does not create a hollow grind so lots more metal must be removed dring subsequent honing/sharpening and second, because these abrasives are softer than diamond one can't take as big steps in grit size reduction as one moves from grinding to final edge refinement. I go from 80 grit aluminium oxide power grinder wheel to 1 micron diamond in one step and I am done.

Renewing the primary only

Brent

>In the rare case that I have to regrind the primary on a badly abused blade, or change the primary angle quite a bit, I would use my belt sander. Fortunately, this almost never happens.

Here I am renewing the primary after having honed the blade often enough that the microbevels are getting wider than it makes sense to hone with 15 micron abrasive. This is after 3 or 4 honings - say 1200 to 6400 linear feet of planing, depending on the blade (old Stanley or modern M2).

Same basic setup as my honing setup, so just add a 1 minute primary bevel renew step, before continuing with the normal honing steps. (Blade extension reset required)

I was surprised too

Brent

>The test included M2, D2, CRM 3V, A3 irons. I was quite surprised at how well it went. As mentioned on the Norton 3X page, the D2 was the hardest to renew, harder than either M2 or CRM 3V. Further testing is required to make me more confident of this result.

I have ground all these blades in the past with an AlO belt, so it is clear that AlO is hard enough. That it worked so quickly in a non-powered setting was a real surprise.

My earlier testing with Zirconia was disappointing and I don't use it any more.

When honing, using my jig and the wooden slips, I hone only the edge. A hollow grind is unnecessary.

I am getting these blades ready for some initial sharpness testing. I would like to discover if it is possible to bring all these different steel types to the same sharpness using 3M abrasives. All 10 blades will go through exactly the same sharpening process, with photomicrographs at each stage. Once I have done that I will go back and redo this test, with before and after pictures as well as timings.

Brent

Re: Hand Cranked Grinder - where to buy? *LINK*

John in Kerrville

>Here is a link to one for sale on E-Bay.

Disclaimer: I have no interest in the sale of this item.

John


http://cgi.ebay.com/Old-Hand-Cranked-Benchtop-Wheel-Grinder_W0QQitemZ290064705056QQihZ019QQcategoryZ4123QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

Re: Hand Cranked Grinder - where to buy?

John in Kerrville

>The same seller (see link below) has a different one on page 18 of his e-bay store.

john

If you're a garage sale type

Bill Houghton, Sebastopol, CA

>they show up from time to time. Watch for worn bearings - mostly, they used plain bearings (aka bushings), which wear pretty fast when they get grit in them; and, for some reason, there's a lot of grit around when these are in use.

Re: Norton 3X

Moses Yoder in White Pigeon, MI

>I use a 60 grit white 8" diameter stone. Used hand cranked grinders are commonly available, for those who are really interested in getting one. I know they are still being made new, as I see them occasionally, but the quality level is not whit it used to be. I think LV would make some money if they stepped into this market, although a really good hand cranked grinder would cost probably about as much as a motirzed version probably, but it could be a very nice tool. I am currently using a very nice one that used to be my uncle's. I bought a box full of 8" white grinding stones that are around 60 grit if I recall correctly, found at an auction. I do not find it necessary to dress the wheel more than about once in a year. It takes a little bit of practice for a right hander to crank with the right hand and steer the blade with the left, but with the 1" wide wheel is not really a big deal, as the iron rides against the wheel pretty square and if you keep the sparks in the center of the wheel it comes out pretty good for me. Show up at my shop and I'll give you a free lesson ;)

I'm convinced to try this abrasive.

bill tindall, E. TN

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