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Installing butt hinge woes...

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Installing butt hinge woes...

#1

Installing butt hinge woes...

Joe in a Cleveland suburb

>Hi.

I tried to mortise for some butt hinges like Garret Hack describes in FW issue #159. I set my gage about 1/32" shy of the center of the barrel. Problem is the barrel of the hinge will be set in way too deep. Guess maybe I didn't understand what I was reading.

The first pic shows where the hinges would be if I screwed it in. The second shows where I think it should be. Guess I can fix it with a little piece/strip of walnut. No biggy I guess. Live and learn...

What did I do wrong?

How do you do this?

How do you mark out the mortise for butt hinges?

Thanks,

Joe




Re: Installing butt hinge woes...

#2

Re: Installing butt hinge woes...

Bill Houghton, cool and sunny, Sebastopol, CA

>Generally, all of the barrel of a butt hinge will be proud of the surface of the door/face frame.

Re: Installing butt hinge woes...

#3

Re: Installing butt hinge woes...

David Charlesworth

>I may be wrong here but that style of hinge is surely for surface mounting on things like old corner cupboards.

A solid drawn brass hinge has a much less prominent barrel, which is not thicker than the two hinge leaves, when closed.

The Best way to see what will happen with a hinge is to draw the crossection accurately, mabe 2 X scale, and use a pin and tracing paper to see how it will open. The door section is drawn on the tracing paper and the pin goes where the center of the pin is.

The carcass and door are drawn on the paper first.

See section on hingeing in Ernest Joyce.

David Charlesworth

Re: Installing butt hinge woes...

#4

Jack Guzman from Maine

second on Joyce..

Jack Guzman from Maine

>I found the section on hingeing in Joyce's book and it was a revelation to me.Everything became clear.

That book,Encyclopedia of Furniture Making,is one of my most used tools.I think every woodworker should have a copy of it.---Jack

Re: Installing butt hinge woes...

#5

Joyce is indispensible!

David Charlesworth

>

Re: Installing butt hinge woes...

#6

Serious?

Joe in a Cleveland suburb

>Are you serious?!

          "that style of hinge is surely for surface mounting"

Darn it. That's not what they told me at Rockler... :(

Maybe that's the whole problem.

Joe

Re: Installing butt hinge woes...

#7

Re: Serious?

Warren in Lancaster, PA

>Joe, all of the door hinges in my old house are of this style, with small finials extending above and below the hinge. They were mounted the way your second picture shows, the barrel completely outside the mortise but not surface mounted. If you had had a plainer hinge with the barrel ending at the top of the leaf your method would have worked fine. From the pictures it looks like your mortise is a little shallow, maybe a only a sixteenth of an inch. The depths of the mortises on the door and the frame when added together should be almost as much as the thickness of the barrel; if you have too much gap you can adjust the depth of the mortises.

Re: Installing butt hinge woes...

#8

Not always

Bill Houghton, cool and sunny, Sebastopol, CA

>On the architectural butt hinges in my 1890 house, all the barrels are larger than the hinge leaves when closed together. I always thought there were some styles of cabinet hinges like that - ?

See some additional related comments below Warren's post.

Re: Installing butt hinge woes...

#9

Hinge mortise depth

Bill Houghton, 24 deg F today, Sebastopol, CA

>Disclaimer: what I'm about to say is based on experience with architectural (house door) hinges, not so much on cabinet hinges.

Whether your hinge mortise pays attention to the size of the barrel at all depends on whether the hinge leaves come together fully when closed or not. By "fully" I mean: when the edges of the hinge leaves farthest from the barrel (hereafter called "far edges," which sounds so Hibernian...) touch, the surfaces of the hinge leaves touch all the way to the barrel. If I recall correctly, this is referred to as a "swaged" hinge. If you've got this style, your mortises should each be ever so slightly less deep than the thickness of each leaf (we're talking 1 or 2 64ths, just to make sure any irregularities in the door/face frame don't bind).

From my limited understanding of cabinet hinges, on many of them, when the far edges touch, the surfaces don't, forming a wee triangle of space between them, with the hinge barrel forming one leg of the triangle. For these, you should cut your mortises so that the leaves are parallel when the door is closed, and the diameter of the barrel will probably determine the depth of the mortise (each mortise being 1/2 of the diameter of the barrel).

My 2 cents, adjusted to almost nothing to account for inflation.

Re: Installing butt hinge woes...

#10

Re: Not always

David Charlesworth

>Bill,

I'm sure you are right, I was in a hurry this morning.

Drawn cabinet hinges in UK have tapering leaves, and there is space between them at the barrel end. (Crossection)

What this means , if you want to be neat, is that the recess for each leaf has a sloped bottom!

David

Re: Installing butt hinge woes...

#11

Re: Serious?

David Charlesworth

>Joe,

Sorry I was in a hurry.

It may be perfectly possible to fit those hinges, as per the suggestion.

I would need to sit down with the pin and tracing paper to work out the details.

best wishes,

David

Re: Installing butt hinge woes...

#12

Errata

Bill Houghton, 24 deg F today, Sebastopol, CA

>I thought of one possibility I hadn't included in my earlier post: it would be possible to have a hinge on which the leaves were thick enough that they'd touch when closed, but the combined thickness would equal the diameter of the barrel. In this case, you'd mortise to half the barrel diameter (=hinge leaf thickness anyway).

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