Spruces

Welcome stranger!

Derek Cohen (in Perth, Australia)

>Welcome back stranger! Where have you been? Missed your posts over the past year (or two?).

Regards from Perth

Derek

Look under it's Kilt?

Scott Burr in Ben Lomond, CA

>

Re: Spruces

Denis Ch�nard, Orl�ans, Ont.

>I don't know specifically about Engelmann spruce, but in my neck of the woods "red spruce" refers to larch, one of the few deciduous conifers. It's as resistant as cedar as a wood for outdoors applications, but it's quite unstable, hard to dry the stuff without boards turning into pretzels...

DC

Re: Spruces

john jesseph

>Are you asking about identifying trees, lumber, or what's on a musical instrument? Just curious...

I'm not an expert, so I shouldn't give an answer- here I go anyway! I have billets of all kinds of spruce, and know what they were billed as by the sellers. Seems like Sitka can be picked out by the reediness, and Englemann is more homogenous in color, maybe Adirondak is in between, don't you think? Seems like experts are not certain what is in modern "vintage" instruments...

Re: Welcome stranger!

Jonathan Peck

>Hey Derek, thanks. Just passing through. I got back into making music instead of sloppy dovetails. Now, the only time my hobby makes my fingers bleed is when I change strings:^)I've been playing Bluegrass guitar and mandolin and have't spent much time down the dungeon shop lately. We are moving in a few weeks and I'm going to set-up the shop again. This time I have a smaller room in the basement, but it has a full size window.

Glad to see some familiar faces still here

-jonathan

Re: Spruces

Jonathan Peck

>I'm no expert either, but that would sure go along with what alot of what I've read. I was curious if they could be identified if random billets were layed out on the bench.

Re: Spruces

Todd Stock

>Jonathan:

Red spruce (aka trade name Adirondack spruce; also including red/black hybrids) has more pronounced/coarser grain and less luster than Engelmann (after botanist George Engelmann). Red spruce tops - even in the top grades - can look like lumberyard framing stock. Not quite Brazilian RW pricing, but close for the few Master/AAAA tops that are available each year. Cosmetically, a AAA red spruce top will look more like A or non-grade Sitka than $300 worth of banjo-killing dread top.

If you pop in to Mando Bros or GC, the D-18A and some other vintage/genuine models will have red spruce tops, while the OM-28 John Mayer (they should carry it in stock) has an Engelmann top. The Englemann will look more like European spruce (Picea abies with subspecies, aka German, Carpathian, etc.) - whiter, softer, lighter, and with much finer looking grain lines than red spruce. Martin generally uses a toner on their Engelmann tops to tone down the white.

Lutz spruce (hybrid of sitka, Englemann, and white) is growing in popularity with luthiers, and in five years, most of the semi-custom builders will be charging a premium for Lutz versus sitka or Engelmann. Lowden just started building with the stuff, so I'm stocking up now. Nice wood for a custom - I have two on the bench with Lutz tops - a mahogany Size 2 and a bubinga OO 14 fretter w/ flame maple binding.

Might post the question over at OLF (www.luthiersforum.com) - a couple tonewood producers post there, as well as a dozen or so retail/wholesale wood vendors. Best place to go for hard core luthiery info, and a nice break from the bridge pin & pickguard debates on UMGF or attitudes on 13th Fret & MIMF.

Todd