Est. 1998 — 27 years of woodworking knowledge
Oh, Joint Gods . . .?
SteveM
>I know I should be doing Dove Tails, Boxes and Fingers and I am learning BUT . . .if you have an assembled box and you slot the corners horizontally to insert connecting "tenons" (?) so that, when looking at one side head on, it would look like box joints, what would we call the joint (besides cheating) ?
Splines
Dave Mount
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Re: Oh, Joint Gods . . .?
Dean J in MN
>Steve --
You posted this on the Hand Tool side, so it begs a question. Do you intend to cut you joinery by hand? If so, from a hand tool point of view, Box/Finger joints needn't be on your list. Those are machine joints. If you are working by hand the joinery options are taken from a different menu so to speak. Yes, you can cut finger/box joints by hand -- but they are "just as hard" as DTs by hand, so I'd focus on traditional joinery if you see yourself heading down the machine-free path.
-Dean
I think it's a keyed mitre joint.
Chuck Nickerson
>When I think of a splined miter, I think of the spline as not being visible.
Spline, probably
Pam Niedermayer - Austin, TX
>I think a really neat thing to try would be a top to bottom single spline. Then you could simply saw the mortises and insert spline. Of course, this would require some glue to hold. If you want a box joint around that, it would probably work fine, just saw the mortises in the boxes. Glue still required.
Pam
It's an honorable joint, not cheating
Bill Houghton, retired fun in Sebastopol, CA
>If I understand your question correctly, you're asking about a joint like that illustrated below (courtesy of Arco's "The Complete Woodworking Handbook," by Jeannette T. Adams and Emanuele Stieri, 1960, p. 137, from Fig. 35). The bit of veneer you've inserted is called a "feather" by at least some authors. The drawing illustrates its use in a picture frame sized joint. I've also seen drawings in which the same approach is used for a box, with several feathers slanted in opposing directions - kind of like dovetails. As Chuck Nickerson mentions, it's also called a keyed joint.
I've used variations of this joint several times, for both frames and boxes, and it's quite strong. In fact, I used it just this Fall for some covers I'll be putting over the openings for the heater registers when we remove the heater (lath-and-plaster walls are a bear to fix invisibly, and, as usual, I'm doing in the winter work I should have done last summer, so I want something that will quickly cover the openings). For a box, I'd consider making veneer slightly thicker than the saw kerf and squashing it in a vise before inserting, so that it filled the joint; not so sure I'd do that for a frame (like the illustration), as I'd worry about splitting the frame. For the heater-register covers I mentioned above, I cut the wood then scraped it for a tight fit before gluing it in.
You could cut a slot - that is, with width - for which you'd need a chisel the right width for your intended slot. I will here confess that I have done this several times, too, using an electron-killing device with a round, toothy, whirling thing on it (yes, a table saw...I hang my head).
Similarly, you could cut a dovetail-shaped slot and plane dovetail keys. This is more commonly done these days with power tools, but I've seen references to it in books that assume the use of hand tools for everything, so there's non-electrical history of the practice. It seems to me that, if you're doing that, you might as well learn dovetails, although the joint would, I suppose, have the advantage of being equally resistant to pulling apart in both directions. This is a variation I have yet to do, and am not sure of the difficulty.
So, yes, it's a real joint, and one with an honorable history; you're not cheating.
Splined Miter joint
Ron in Kokomo
>One of the 50 or so joints required when I took a joinery class at our local community college several years ago. I prefer a lapped miter that is pinned. ( the pin can be done from the back and be invisible or it can go all the way through and be decorative)
Re: Oh, Joint Gods . . .?
SteveM
>Roger that ! Trying to stay on the "straight and narrow" but I assembled the box already. Got WAY ahead in my enthusiasm to see it put together. Now I know. All part of the learning curve I guess. Thats why I come here ! Thanks.
By God, thats it ! Thank you !
SteveM
>
Re: It's an honorable joint, not cheating
Ted Shuck, Centennial, CO
>I've made these type of joints for picture frames and flattish boxes. I always thought they were called "splined miter joints".
I've done them with only hand tools, since that's all I've got. The approach I've taken is to use the fattest backsaw I have with a kerf of about 0.040". This means that the splines or feathers are really thin pieces of veneer. Since these are only about 2" long by 1" wide, they can be cut from the edge of a board with a dovetail saw. They are usually a little fat after cutting them, so I beat them thinner with a hammer, spread glue on them, and slot them it. After the glue dries, trim smooth with a chisel and then plane. Works very well.
Regards,
Ted
Different beast...
Ellis Walentine
>...at least in my parlance.
A splined joint has a spline running parallel to the mating members, whether they be parallel, butted or mitered at some angle.
The feather joint is usually made after the corners are glued up.
Couple nuances from my point of view...
Ellis
Re: Different beast...
Pam Niedermayer - Austin, TX
>Just in case one would want to resort to the dictionary, spline is defined as:
1 : a thin wood or metal strip used in building construction
2 : a key that is fixed to one of two connected mechanical parts and fits into a keyway in the other; also : a keyway for such a key
3 : a function that is defined on an interval, is used to approximate a given function, and is composed of pieces of simple functions defined on subintervals and joined at their endpoints with a suitable degree of smoothness
Pam
Re: Different beast...
Pam Niedermayer - Austin, TX
>Didn't intend to dispute your much more extensive common usage point.
Pam
That third definition is an absolute masterwork
Bill Houghton, retired fun in Sebastopol, CA
>of precision. Maybe I'd understand it better if I were an engineer or a mathematician.
Both of the other definitions use "spline" as a general term for which, in the respective trades, more precise terms are used. For instance, definition #2 would treat the kind of metal key used on many power tool pulleys (aka sheaves), old truck rear axle brake drums, etc., as a spline, but I've never heard a machinist or mechanic use that term in referring to it; always "key" and "keyway." At least in automotive mechanics, "spline," in my experience, refers to a shaft with multiple ridges that fit into matching grooves on the flange, brake drum, etc. that slips over the shaft. The trade reserves the term for a specific definition, not the class of items that fit the definition offered, to avoid confusion.
Oh, yeah, makes my head hurt, too.
Pam Niedermayer - Austin, TX
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Re: Different beast...
Ted Shuck, Centennial, CO
>Thanks for explaining the difference in the spline and feather terms. It's always good to learn something new.
Regards,
Ted