LV shoulder or bullnose plane for tenon cheeks *LINK*

LV shoulder

Derek

>I do not feel that the bull nose plane will have enough registration at the front of the plane and I don't feel you will be happy with it for tenon cheeks.

Re: LV shoulder or bullnose plane for tenon cheeks

Joe Rogers, Northern Virginia

>Agree with Derek. The longer shoulder planes will be more accurate for trimming both shoulders and cheeks. There will be less chance of "faceting" the corners of whatever you trim.JR

Re: LV shoulder or bullnose plane for tenon cheeks

thomd

>I agree with the shoulder plane also.

You can actually get by without either. A block plane is fine if you chisel by hand just the portion it can't cut. Since one is often in tight getting the crumbs out with a chisel it really doesn't slow the process down to use remove the slight amount of material required to make a passage for the shoulder plane. Something to try at least while you are waiting for the new plane to arrive.

You will probably be just as happy with either material in the blades, there are pros and cons to each. I think O1 is a better choice. It's easier to sharpen, but requires more re-sharpening. In professional blade use that has comonly been the best choice, and it happens to be better for beginers also. The only disadvantage is in magazine tests. The main places where high resistence to abrasion works out are:

1) The stuff it was designed for, machine tools, steel cutting steel, etc... Here the general issue i heat resistence not just harder wear.

2) People who can't sharpen. Some people send their tools back to the factory for sharpening.

3) Survival situations where the blade can't be resharpened.

4) Working in materials with an unusual amount of abrasive capacity, like wood with silica.

5) People who make such a big deal out of sharpening with so many jigs and so slow, and have planes that are so complicated to set that essentially it's like they can't actually sharpen.

Different opinion on sharpening A1/O1

Derek

>I have very limited time in the shop. Sharpening takes time to set up and clean up. I don't have space to leave the stuff out ready to go. It is much more efficient for me to have a longer wearing blade and sharpen less frequently.

I also work a lot with hard maple and it has silica.

I prefer A1. I have planes with both in the shop but definitely prefer the A1.

Hard Maple

Warren in Lancaster, PA

>Derek,

Some months ago you mentioned planing "rock maple" and several people mentioned that the properties you talked about, interlocked grain and soft areas, seemed odd for our "rock maple". In North America we use rock (or hard) maple for Acer saccharum (sugar maple), and Acer nigrum (black maple). I did some research at the time and wondered if you were talking about "queensland maple", Flindersia brayleyana, which is not really a maple. Do you know what wood you are using?

Re: Different opinion on sharpening A1/O1

thomd

>Right Derek, you sound like a cat 4&5 sharpener except without the sneer I unintentionally imparted. I'm a bit like that too, though I have some ways around it that put me in the fast sharpener area, but I have never been able to set aside the shop space to do it properly.

At the end of the day it really doens't mater, starts to sound like wine tasting, which would be fine if what we are searching is , and it may well be, primarily an aesthetic experience. All these steels work well enough that the work or the speed of complesion shouldn't suffer either way.

If I could advise a person starting out, I would probably advise them to stick with one kind of steel, like O1, that is available in all tools one is likely to buy. I have many different steels all of which ideally like something a little different in the way of a sharpening processes. I'm moving into O1 since it's readily available, and I am gradually getting all my tools in that steel, though even there there are variation that are quite vivid. That simplifies the whole thing and I think the results are every bit as good. I think the path I have been following is to try as many options as possible just to see what works. Ironically that's not what works.

The next part is to get all the planes so they have only one or two parts to remove for sharpening, and maybe someday get the sharpening sorted out in a logical fashion.

Re: LV shoulder or bullnose plane for tenon cheeks

Jim in Burlington On

>Personally I like the shoulder plane for that job. For my money I'd get a A2 blade. I use my medium shoulder plane quite a bit to adjust the tounge's on hardwood flooring and that blade really holds a edge. That blade for me is one of the hardest to sharpen because it needs to be perfectly square with the sides so the less I have to sharpen it the better.

Re: LV shoulder plane for tenon cheeks

Glenn Madsen near San Francisco

>Now you've heard from the pros, and their valid opinion.

Here's mine:

I build four to six cabinets a years, and one or two kitchens. I still work in my 'day job', so these things get fit in around the road trips, family obligations, community activities, etc.

If my O2-bladed LV Medium shoulder plane needs a thorough sharpening more than twice a year, I'm amazed. I suspect you would be, too. A quick hone at 1200 wet/dry, a buff on the wheel with green stuff, and back to work. The value in the difference of the steels in the plane blade matters to someone else. I'm glad that this is one of the couple of dozen planes in the cabinet when I get to use it.

Re: Hard Maple

Derek Cohen (in Perth, Australia)

>Hi Warren

Different Derek! Confusing I know - that is why I always state my addresss.

Anyway, regarding the "Rock Maple", all I know is what I was told. What I described is echoed by others here in Oz. No doubt we are talking about different woods ("timber" is the term in Australia).

Here is a comparison of some of the species for interest.

Note the different Maple types. For reference, there is the Jarrah I use a lot, as well as the Blackbutt and Grey Gum I have described before as "difficult" :) :)

Regards from Perth

Derek

Re: LV shoulder plane for tenon cheeks

thomd

>Glenn, I think what you have stated is what the pros think! Of course finding any real pros is a problem in itself. Historic recreation types are limited, and various tool purists also work within their specialization, but pros whether woodworking or knife using, whatever, seem to prefer steel that sharpens easily, retains the edge reasonably, and a fast process for touch-up.

Apologies to both.

Warren in Lancaster, PA

>Sorry to confuse you. I had noticed the two names before, but since I had not heard of silica in hard maple it made me wonder what wood we were talking about.

Derek in Perth, my son is in Perth this fall (or is it spring) so I thought it odd that you were posting at 2:40, although he often calls after noon here.

Thanks - LV shoulder or bullnose plane

Henry (Raleigh NC)

>Thanks to all for the excellent advice. I ordered the Medium shoulder plane this morning, and since I had to pick one, chose the O1 blade. I reasoned that it was most likely to be similar to other chisels or blades I have, based on what I read in this thread. As a novice sharpener, I wanted a few variables as possible.

Henry

Rock maple

Derek

>Is an old term for hard maple in the states. Any hard maple would have fallen into that catagory.

Re: Rock maple

Frank D. in Montreal

>Up here it means only acer saccharum (sugar maple).

FWIW

Re: Rock maple

Warren in Lancaster, PA

>Black maple and sugar maple are closely related species which share much of the same range. Although they are easy to tell apart by looking at the twigs, for practical purposes like syrup and lumber they are indistinguishable and so they are lumped as hard maple. Both grow in Quebec and Ontario and south.

Right, thanks!

Frank D. in Montreal

>

Re: LV shoulder or bullnose plane for tenon cheeks

tsproul

>I'm not sure how much material you are looking to remove but for fine fitting, I turn to either a file or a something akin to a paint stir stick with some sandpaper (generally Norton 3x, 80 grit) adhered to one face. I've not needed to fix shoulders but I have needed to take down the cheeks of my tenons sometimes...and sometimes I just need a wisp of material removed so that I don't have to put 50 pounds of shoulder pressure to get the tenon to seat into the mortise.

This also works for things like lap joints when the laps are a bit proud.

Re: LV shoulder or bullnose plane for tenon cheeks

Henry (Raleigh NC)

>I planned on trimming the cheeks and so deliberately rough cut my tenons thick in the interest of getting a snug fit on all joints (not just most!). The various pieces have some thickness variations; these are skirts on three small end tables. I wanted to keep the skirt/leg reveal consistent on the visible side by trimming the tenon cheeks appropriately. In the past I have used a tenon jig on the tablesaw, but that was quite tedious and unforgiving. This seemed like the right place to improve my hand tool skills. Sandpaper would have been entirely too slow.

Henry

Re: LV shoulder or bullnose plane for tenon cheeks

tsproul

>"Sandpaper would have been entirely too slow."

Purposely cutting your tenons oversize is even slower :- ). Practice your sawing skills more. Saw the line. Not kinda close to the line.

It works! LV shoulder plane

Henry (Raleigh NC)

>Thanks for the advice on selecting a plane. I rec'd it last week but I only had a few minutes in the shop this weekend. I did manage to clean and wax it, and then try it on a test piece. Trimming those tenon cheeks was even easier than I expected.

I'm very pleased with the product and the ordering process. Receiving it with a sharp blade was great too!

Henry