Est. 1998 — 27 years of woodworking knowledge
"Protocol does not permit..."
Bill Houghton, Sebastopol, CA
>"Protocol of this board forbids me from writing the exact way I would have phrased it."
And if you had phrased it that way as a high school student to a teacher, you'd have gotten to know the principal or vice principal very well indeed.
Re: ... psychodelic vinyl miniskirts. . .
thomd coralseacat@yahoo.au
>Whenever I am inclined to mention the 60s I feel a little worried because I was born in '59, so I can't tell whether the thing I am commenting on actually started in the 60s, or I just just first noticed it then.
I think a lot of the sixties stuff was naive, but very hand made or rustic. A lot of the stuff I saw was junk like candle ends poured into milk cartens with crushed ice to make a candle with holes throughout, or funky leatherwork, but at least people appreciated something that didn't require MS to brand it first. Wood wise there were all those hobbit like homes in the Shelter books 1&2 (book still sold today), and all that rounded californian woodwork. The better stuff was very personal and often difficult to fit into an environment that contained anything else.
Anaologously I think rock music is probably rising and falling with the 60s generation. Sure there were lots of antecedants in the 50s, and sure young kids still play it now, but a lot of the culture has changed. Sampling, if it hadn't hit a copyright snag, is an example of how people today feel about struggling to learn how to play an instrument and write their own music... Also people really don't care too much about how they get the music, ringtones are just fine. I had to ride a train into a big city to pick up an album, and in the past you pretty much had to hear it live. So from live to an instantly downloaded ringtone, people are willing to have a pretty stripped out experience, and I think it should apply to furniture just as much.
So what happens is people would like an area where they can retain the full texture of the experience, so they take up woodworking as a hobbie. The actual number of people whose motive is needful is minute. "Not a problem", as the kids say.
Commerce driven schooling
Bill Houghton, foggy mornings in Sebastopol, CA
>I could easily slide into political commentary here, but I'm trying not to do so; if a moderator feels I've gone too far, I will understand if my comments are deleted.
Realistically, I think we have to recognize that community college and adult continuing ed vocational programs are, by and large, just that: vocational, for people who are looking to make more money. I'm surprised that nursing and CAD didn't fly (and a little surprised that HVAC should have been so heavily enrolled - it's not like that's a trade heading toward its peak employment), but not so surprised that a woodworking course wouldn't make it.
Our local community college has been under tremendous pressure for years to cut back on about everything except courses that fit one of three categories: certificate programs (e.g., licensed vocational nurse), transfer prep (courses that will meet the lower division requirements for public four year schools), and vocational (similar to the first, except less intellectual sounding). The latter are pretty well entirely industry-driven, so when our son took intro to machine shop, it was really intro to running CNC machines, and the instructor had no idea how to answer his questions about using a pre-WWII metal lathe.
Granted, California local and state government has been committing fiscal suicide since 1978, when Proposition 13, the first of the let's-cut-taxes initiatives, was passed; but still, it's a shame to see the focus pushed to such a narrow point.
Re: Commerce driven schooling
Pam Niedermayer - Austin, TX
>I've often mentioned Austin CC here, but not the non-woodworking courses I've taken there. Jack and I needed up update our software skills, or so we thought, turns out nothing much helped, so I enrolled in a Java (popular computer language) course. The first semester was wonderful, really learned the language. The second semester, same instructor, was a disaster. Instead of learning more sophisticated Java techniques, we spent at least half of each class cribbing for the Sun Java certification tests. I hated that. The third semester of advanced Java was a killer, almost impossible, because of what I didn't learn in Java II.
I'd say about 3/4 of the classes they offer, and 100% of the computer classes, are certificate driven. I suppose this could help those looking for jobs, but I was looking for an education. Fortunately the advanced writing courses aren't yet in certification. :)
Pam
Re: Cycles
kees
>thomd,
it's obvious, woodworkers aren't solving problems.
Have fun.
Re: My wife and I were just discussing tonight
Chris Scholz
>I don't know many places where ONLY "head-intelligence" is an asset (maybe theoretical physics, pure math or some obscure branches of computer science). The folks that are doing well in my lab are the ones with "hand-AND-head intelligence" (we are working with lasers, nano technology, internet, and such)
---
Wrong: not everyone wants to go to college; some people's intelligence is in their hands-and-heads, not just in their heads. But that's no longer considered a positive, as it was not so long ago.
We are students without a teacher (little long)
Stephen Kirk in Quakertown PA
>That quote came for a book on timber framing (I can look up the title if anyone is interested), and it really struck a chord with me. I am a college educated computer programmer, and I could pick up just about any mental skill from a book. However, getting into woodworking, learning from books just didn't seem to click for me. I could read all day long about a process, but still be able to actually do it.
There are some courses around me, but not many. Plus, the courses are either very beginner, involve pen/bowl turning or fretworking. Not many people get into more detailed work, or even cover the real basics of woodworking - like how to clamp a case square. I've found courses with some better people, but they are not easy to come by.
Outside of just woodworking, I'm discovering that so many other skills are getting lost. I just tried regrinding the bevel on some mower blades, with less than acceptable results, and it'll take me a while to figure it out because there is no one to tell you how it's done anymore.
It's hard to imagine that in this age of information, we've forgotten so much.
I should not have exaggerated the difference
Bill Houghton, Sebastopol, CA
>I work in an office, and could work effectively as a disembodied head, although working on the keyboard would be a little harder. I will grant you that a lot of research and applied science and technology work requires both physical and intellectual competence, in which it is very much like auto repair, building trades, and the other "physical" kinds of occupations. But there's a lot of jobs like mine, in various forms.
I doubt there's any job in the universe that doesn't require some brain power, but if you imagine a continuum with physical labor on one end and mental labor on the other, I think most of the people who promote "everyone should go to college" concepts believe that college graduates go into work that is tilted way over toward the mental labor end.
Re: Grinding in the info age
thomd coralseacat@yahoo.au
>I reground a mower I borrowed the other day. After a while away, my lawn was really overgrown and beyond the ability of my reel mowers to deal with it, and after it had been run over for a bit, no good for a scythe either. So I borrowed a power mower and sharpened it. There are a lot of really good grinders these days the art knife field is full of them and a lot of woodworkers would be better off it they could learn a little creative grinding. It's just the reverse of lathe work just use the round thing to wear away the straight thing.
I often wonder what information age means. It doesn't mean that more people know more stuff (though there are a lot of very well educated people around), it's an age in which information is commoditized or mechanized so that rather than everyone needing to know more you don't need to know as much, for instance voice recognition makes it possible not to type, or that would be the outcome. Anyone interested in woodworking only needs a few evenings to get up to speed on the internet, not a 7 year apprenticeship.