Shoulder Plane

I like

jimreed@tallahassee


>my Stanley #93. It was brand new and took some work. The blade was ground out of square and the whole thing hurt my hand. I sanded it down and sharpened the blade and now it is one of my favorites. If you want something larger, try an Ulmia. Good luck in your quest.

Re: Shoulder Plane

Moses Yoder in White Pigeon, MI


>In my opinion the Lee Valley large shoulder plane is the best all around shoulder plane. It is one of my favorite planes, and I simply cannot imagine a better shoulder plane. It is really amazing to be able to buy this quality tool for the price. If you even think that I am somehow associated with LV, I will be severely offended. I'm just a very impressed customer.

Re: Shoulder Plane

Bruce, a MN Galoot


>My preference is the LV medium shoulder plane. I've never made a piece of furniture that required a larger plane for the shoulders. It just works really well for me, fits my hand just right, and that knob thingie may look out of place, but the first time you try it, you'll understand...

Bruce

Skip it

Adam Cherubini,NJ


>My advice is to skip it. Use a chisel instead. Paul and I were working a bunch of these joints this weekend at pennsbury and he was teasing me about my attitude about shoulder planes. But for the most part, our joints came out okay. Most of the time the problems were caused by sawing and they were crooked through the thickness such that you can't really fix with a shoulder plane anyway. The other trick we used was backing the joint apart and runnning a x-cut saw through the gap. Its an old trick but it does a pretty good job. It sometimes dubs away the ends a little. But I guess I think the shoulder plane is a solution to a problem I don't have. I know MANY others disagree, but I thought I'd express my minority view anyway.

Adam

big disagreement here

bill tindall


>But it likely depends on what you already own. Of all the hand tools I wish I bought sooner this is at the top of that list. It would be the last plane I would part with because nothing in my shop does what it does.

Shoulders or course, fitting tennon cheeks (its main use for me), planing the bevel of raised panels, with a nicked iron it makes a perfect shooting plane. There are other uses involving fitting but they are not coming to mind. It has taken my tennon fitting to a new level. I should add that it is the only plane I own that has an iron that goes to the edge of the sole.

Putting the Pennsbury Experience in Perspective

William Duffield, on the Cohansey


>Adam and Paul and the other joyners at Pennsbury are reproducing and interpreting furniture styles, tools, techniques and working conditions as they existed (to the best of our knowledge) in the latter half of the Seventeenth Century, at the edge of the frontier, half a day's ride or sail from the nearest town.

While a chisel will work, especially,

- if you are working in coarse oak;

- if you need something, anything, better than the ground in a hurry to rest your haunches upon;

- if the face surfaces of your stiles and rails, or posts and frames, or legs and aprons, or other M&T joints are not flush;

- if the low angle iron shoulder plane had not yet been invented (guessing here), or at least was not available,

...technical advancements and furniture stylistic refinements made in the intervening three and a half centuries should not be ignored. My point here is that if a joint with no visible gaps is an objective, a shoulder plane has advantages.

Sometimes, a chisel is necessary, and can complement a good shoulder plane, but a shoulder plane is easier to master, and more quickly and consistently makes a tighter, and thus stronger, joint. OTOH, Some shoulder trimming jobs are very difficult to do with a shoulder plane (e.g., fitting a crest rail to rear chair legs), so mastering the techniques required to do this with a chisel alone are valuable.

As to which shoulder plane, I have a few, and have used several others. I own a L-N large shoulder plane. You don't need anything more than this. It works superbly. The Veritas, however, works just as well, has a few technical and ergonomic improvements, and you just can't argue with the price. The locations of the removable knobs are well thought-out and are actually useful.

I don't much like medium shoulder planes. They are compromises. Even though their blades are probably wide enough for the vast majority of the shoulders on most furniture, they are not wide enough to get a good grip on them. I can't figure out how to make use of the knob on this particular Veritas model. It seems to just get in my way, but that may be strongly dependent on the working methods I use. They are also not wide enough to precisely trim most tenon cheeks, while the large shoulder planes will make do. Of course, a rabbet plane works better at this job, and since usually all the cheeks are fit to the mortises before starting on fitting the shoulders, if you are organized, you don't really need a rabbet plane and a shoulder plane out on the bench top at the same time, and you really need an excuse for another plane anyhow, and a wide chisel, or proper sawing technique will suffice...

I find the Stanley #93 to be extremely uncomfortable, but it is about the only choice for fitting bridle joints, because it is not as tall as the other shoulder planes. Individual examples may also suffer mortally from lack of quality control. Some people will tell you that it can also be used as a chisel plane, but that's about as much spin as saying a couple of logs can be used as a jack, if you need to change a tire. It has lots of other disadvantages, especially when compared to the aforementioned L-N and V planes.

Some other choices that you could consider, if perchance you can find them at a resaonable price (significantly less than a new Veritas), are new Cliftons, and old Records and Preston shoulder planes.

If you want a shoulder plane that can also clean out the corners of stopped rabbets, remove glue, etc., by all means consider the Veritas bull nose shoulder plane. I have one of these, and highly respect it. However, the support in front of the nose is much too short, even though longer than one of Adam's chisels, to gain you any precision in trimming most tenons. I think it is an excellent choice for a second shoulder plane, and much, much better than the Stanley #90.

There is yet another bull nose shoulder plane, but I hesitate to even mention it's number, for fear someone may choose one on the basis of price or cuteness. I have one of these, and it is an abomination. No, it's number is not 666, it's more like six bits, but even if you are offered one at that price, walk away from the deal. I have one of these, too. It is my albatros; my bottle imp.

I'm deeply regret I could not attend this weekend's festivities at Pennsbury, but I had committments both yesterday and today.

Re: Shoulder Plane

Dave Thompson


>Personally, I think a shoulder plane to be one of the best first plane purchases for a hyrbrid user. Regarding Adams comments, while I agree one could certainly do without, I also see not having one as an unnecessary sacrifice. I use my shoulder plane for shaping tenons all the time, and consider the ideal tool for doing so. I could certainly get by with a chisel, though with more effort.

As far as a choice, I'm partial to the Preston influenced line. That being the Preston, Record, LN, LV's. I don't have any experience with a Stanley, though I often read people on this forum diss'ing the Stanley shoulder plane. If you were to consider going on the cheap, a woodie wood probably work well too. Shoulder planes are more of a light shaving roughing plane, so performance requirements allow for wide lattitude. Tearout potentially, can give more glue grip for a tenon ;-)

enjoy,

Dave

Re: Skip it

mikew


>I don't know the last time I used my shoulder plane for tenon shoulders, let alone cheeks. Well, actually I have never used one on tenon cheeks.

Learning to saw well is a first priority. Cleaning a slightly errant cut with a chisel is quick and easy. I also tend to slightly undercut tenon shoulders, so a chisel is at hand anyway.

I don't work in the same period as Adam, leaning towards early 20th century Modern instead. But the techniques are the same.

Sometimes I thin a tenon which doesn't fit, but only if the faces are not paralell due to a miscut. I opt for using a rasp or a file in those instances. But if the tenon is fine, I choose to pare the mortise with a paring chisel.

More options are available than a single-purpose tool such as a shoulder plane.

But a shoulder plane does work well and the LV is very comfy to use. But I would consider borrowing one and use it all the while looking to see if sawing, rasps/files, chisels etc., which can be utilized for more tasks, are a viable choice for you.

Take care, Mike

Re: Skip it *LINK*

Derek Cohen (in Perth, Australia)


>I own and have used several shoulder planes. Of these ..

(1) The Veritas Medium is the best designed, both from an ergonomic and a functional perspective.

(2) The HNT Gordon 3/4" works exceedingly well, is comfortable, and gorgeous to look at.

(3) The Stanley #92 and (#93) work well but lack both in ergonomics and functionality.

(4) My go-to shoulder plane is a craftsman-made infill that is much the same heft/size as the large Veritas or LN. It is comfortable to hold and I like the heft, which creates needed momentum in hardwood.

See the link below for a review of the Veritas Medium (with comparison to Stanley #92 and HNT Gordon).

While I do use a shoulder plane, I will try and get it right with accurate sawing. To do this I scribe the shoulder, then use a chisel to pare a fence for the saw. Sometimes I use a wide chisel to clean up the ends.

Regards from Perth

Derek


Reviewof Veritas Medium Shoulder Plane

Re: Skip it

Warren in Lancaster, PA


>Twentyfive years ago a shoulder plane was near the top of my list for tools to buy. If I had had more money then, I would have bought one. Over the years the shoulder plane gradually dropped down and then off the list. As a full time hand tool only woodworker, I would have no use for this tool; if I had gotten one last year it would still be in the box.

I think the shoulder plane was developed in the waning days of hand work, the late 19th early 20th century. It may find more use in a shop where there is a combination of hand tools and machine tools.

Re: Shoulder Plane

Mike Fitterling


>I have a #93 and use it quite a bit, but I find it uncomfortable to use, especially when using it as a chisel plane without the toe. It will eventually be replaced by a LV.

My 2 cents.

Vlad


>I agree with Adam?

I use a 1 1/4" chisel and it works fine - I'm sure the NA oldtimers did it that way too. It will do 90% of the work very well. I used to have LN 073 because I thought I needed one. I don't. The 073 was just too heavy and clunk to manage.

Save your pennies for something else or make one. That's what I am doing as a winter project - as soon as the shed roofing is done, some funky saws are done, the painting is done, the......

Cheers

Vlad

Re: big disagreement here

david.marcus.brown


>I've got a shoulder plane and I rarely use it -- especially for it's intended task. I've gotten good at cutting tenons so the shoulders rarely need cleaning up. However, I use my skewed block plane for tweaking the tenon cheeks quite often. It's probably my third most used block plane.

The shoulder plane could trim cheeks but it's rather top heavy and not as wide as the skew block, making it less adept and out of its element.

going to market

david.marcus.brown


>After reading this thread and evaluating my shop and what sees the most use, I'm probably going to put my Veritas large shoulder plane up on eBay or list here in the classifieds.

It's a well engineered plane I just don't use it enough to justify keeping it.

Re: Shoulder Plane

Ray Binnicker


>Gentlemen, and I use that term loosely (:-), You have given me exactly the kind of info I need. I thank you. Is this a great forum, or what? Total strangers taking time out of their very busy lives to answer, in detail, anothers question;

Hear, Hear

Confessions of a Shoulder Plane junkie...

Scott Burr in Ben Lomond CA


>I love these guys and I have way too many of them. Records, Stanleys & Cliftons. The only one I use anymore for the most part is a Stanley 94. The LN 60.5R plane has replaced most most of my shoulder planes work, but they look real good sitting in my book case...

60.5

david.marcus.brown


>You mean your hot-rodded 60.5? ;-)

That's the one!

Scott Burr in Ben Lomond CA

Re: Putting the Pennsbury Experience in Perspectiv

thomd coralseacat@yahoo.au


>If I was doing a lot of these in a stock situation, I would get myself something that looked like a router plane in a router table. I could scribe directly off the table, saw, and come back in for tuning cuts all on the same tool. When making money I sometimes do this last bit with a router table, but it's not fun, and I doubt it would works as well as a tooth in a table.

One thing about some of the mentioned options is that they won't work the tenon under the cope while this or a chisel will. In the olden days the coped joint was de rigeur, all these square stock shoulders were a step down.

I have a nice LN shoulder plane that I bought at LV when they were selling them.