"Commercial" posts, and a request

It May Not be the Easiest But We Know Who's Best

Bob Hutchins in central TX


>at it!

Anon

a thankless job

bill tindall


>a thankless job to keep the forum civil but you all have my thanks for it.

Mine too.

Hank Knight from SC

But you do it well Ellis, Thanks.

Stephen Kirk in Quakertown PA

Re: "Commercial" posts, and a request

Denis Ch�nard, Orl�ans, Ont.


>What do you mean, we're opinionated??? :)

Since that site doesn't sell anything, I would have assumed it to be kosher, appearances or not. The Lee Valley site already covers all these products anyway... In my opinion there wasn't anything improper here...

As far as anonymous posters go, you have your reasons to allow them, but personally I wish they'd go. Too easy to do "drive-by" assaults...

Thanks for an excellent job,

DC

Re: "Commercial" posts, and a request

Ernie Miller


>Keep up the good work you know what to do and don't need us telling you how to do it.

anonymous posts and e-mail

Dave Thompson


>Hi Ellis,

During the time I've been posting here and BP, I've held back on including e-mail address simply for fear of e-mail address harvesting web crawlers. In the past I've given up two e-mail addresses well known to friends and acquaintances only because the account was drowning with 150 spams per day. My current e-mail which I've been using for the past ~2 years only get about 2-3spams most of which are picked up by spam filters. I've been pretty guarded with posting the address to open forums.

Regarding inclusion of e-mail address policy, a person wanting to be anonymous would likely put a fake e-mail address, or perhaps a secondary e-mail account not regularly used, or maybe even the e-mail account of someone he's not particularly fond of. ;-) I'm not sure how much this will address the issue.

I agree that anonymous posting should be discouraged as it is something that can too easily be abused. I've noticed that your software tracks IP adresses when posting, though this it is not visible when messages are displayed. Such information, if displayed along with a message and/or searchable, would make it more difficult to post anonymously, regardless of name/e-mail supplied. Example, In the "message posted by" field on the search page, I could just type in an IP address, and see all messages posted from that address.

Dave

Wood Central is the only site I visit regularly

Bill Houghton, Sebastopol, CA


>because no one else does as well balancing openness and maintenance of civility.

Rob Lee is a significant contributor here, and his willingness to receive criticism, listen to ideas, etc. is typical of this community - it's a sign of the nature of his company that its top guy has that attitude. That said, if his post violated the "no commercial posts" policy (and, on balance, I think I'd have to vote "it did"), it was right to remove it. That he asked to have it removed speaks volumes for his integrity.

Thanks Ellis, but...

Scott Burr in Ben Lomond CA


>You make it LOOK easy to run. ;^)

Re: commercial?

Pam Niedermayer - Austin, TX


>I saw the post as Rob's sharing with his friends of something cool he/Veritas had done, sort of like any one of us sharing a nice piece of furniture and/or tools s/he'd made. According to that description, if it's correct, there was nothing commercial about it. Besides, hardly any of us could read the French. :)

So, one or two complainers have had their way in killing a thread, even with Rob's permission. I can't say that I think this is such a great precedent, but then I've always been in favor of maximum transparency. Along those lines, I don't think requiring an email address is a bad thing (a goose and gander thing), particularly if the poster is going to criticize in an effort to get a post/thread killed. And remember, at least one person thought that post/thread worthy. Since free email addresses abound, anyone could get such an address and just never look at the email it gets.

Pam

Thanks Ellis and Rob

Dan Clermont in Burnaby


>I think posts like this should be removed.

I realize LV and Veritas tools are long time sponsors to this site and advertise via banner and could be given an "exception" to the rule but where does it stop?

Perhaps a French banner to the Veritas French link would be the correct thing to do.

I read the posts this morning before walking my daughter and chose not to stick my nose into the thread. When I got home it was gone.

Good for you Rob Lee for requesting it to be removed before it got sidetracked. In the future it would probably be best if they didn't get posted as normal threads.

Still think this is one of the best forums around where the Moderators and Ellis do a good job of mediating. People here are not afraid to post true thoughts and opinions whether they are good or bad.

My answer to the commercialism of any forum would be to have a different category for manufacturers to sound off or ask for opinions on websites, tools, and reviews. Call it the "review" forum. Those that want to read a formal "review" can read it there or here is a link to my website what do you think?

Dan Clermont

Re: "Commercial" posts, and a request

woodburnbob


>The LV, Lee Valley, Veritas, Rob, and Mr. Lee bandwidth on this forum is too wide for my taste. I've gotten to the point I don't even look at threads with those words. I now have a sort of internal filter in my brain. It's a little like surfing over cookie-cutter sit-coms on TV. It's not that I have anything against the company or the person; it's just that it all strikes me as hype, boosterism and soft-sell.

If all of the forum sponsors and advertisers took a similar share of bandwidth, I suspect I'd move on swiftly and permanently.

BTW, I'm not trying to impose my tastes on anyone else, so fans shouldn't have to retaliate too violently.

Hey Ellis

Ron in Kokomo


>Could we run a board just for the sponsors of Wood Central to Feature

"What's New" ? I know I'd visit it regularly

Valid points, Dave...

Ellis Walentine


>...and well known to me. On the administrative back end of this forum, we can see the IP addresses. We harvest them to bust the spammers that hit us from time to time.

You can disguise your e-mail address with "nospam" or something, as many of our visitors do, to keep the bots from adding your valid address to their spam list. I just want to be able to fire off an e-mail to someone who has crossed the line. If the e-mail bounces, it is the end of discussion. That person's IP will be banned.

It's all in the spirit of conciliation, not confrontation.

I appreciate your comments.

Ellis

Need more input on that

Ellis Walentine


>My Friday afternoon brain won't wrap all the way around that one, Dan, but if anyone else wants to weigh in, please do.

Ellis

Stay tuned

Ellis Walentine

Re: Need more input on that

Dan Clermont in Burnaby


>Sorry to have confused you Ellis. Busy day here at work and I was trying to express my thoughts on my lunch hour.

Guess what I am suggesting is another category like the "Turning" or "Handtools" category for formal reviews and or people wanting to send links to their website whether it is Veritas, Knight Toolworks or Blue SPruce Toolworks. People who are really interested in reading reviews or the latest and helping someone assess their commercial website can go to that forum

Just a thought.

Dan Clermont

No, I understood you...

Ellis Walentine


>...I just wanted to see if anyone else picked up on the suggestion.

Ellis

Will Do!

Joe Rogers, Northern Virginia

Re: anonymous posts and e-mail

Bob Hutchins in central TX


>Howdy Dave!

You are already using a spam filter - apparently a pretty good one. If it uses Bayesian principles and gives you simple controls (the one built into Firefox is very good -- and free!), you should be able to avoid a deluge of spam. Ellis' recommendation to use an insert to foil harvester bots is a very good one. I don't and get very little spam. I do however devote the addy you see above to forums (forae, forii? - bulletin boards!) so that I can monitor it.

I like the idea of requiring an addy primarily to facilitate private messenging. I welcome mail from anyone from WoodCentral, but if you don't give some indication in the subject line that you are an Islander, I'll probably smite it with the mighty junk filter.

It's really quite simple and easy. Even I can do it.

BobH, CWP

Re: anonymous posts and e-mail

Bob Fawcett


>Dave,

I know how you feel. I have several addresses that have to be "out there" because of work. I post on this forum regularly and use my email address with the addition of nospam as you can see above. I assume that a human would see this and remove it. An email harvesting program may not be that smart. I have seen others use some other addition and include information on what to remove at the end of a message.

If this idea is usefull to you, try it.

Re: anonymous posts and e-mail

Pam Niedermayer - Austin, TX


>It would be fairly simple to build a "nospam" parser in the harvesting programs, so you'll probably want to add some deception.

Pam

Thanks to all ...

Bob Fawcett


>This sounds like a great compromise. It would allow those who wish to see all the newest info, and those who consider it over the edge to avoid it.

Great idea.

Thanks Ellis for a great board, and to all the members who make it so.

Reference (LV) . . .

Steve Mackay


>Just one cent here . . . Sorry Mr. Lee but, I don't ALLWAYS send you my money. But your catalogue IS my reference book. I just got, about, my thirty-eth book from MIckey Mouse tool peddlers. Allways bounce them off'n your's. AND there are way-more-shameless plugs around (if'n you was plug'n anyhow, which I doubt.)