Birthday's a commin'...Which plane next?

Re: Birthday's a commin'...Which plane next?

Rock Eulo


>Todd

I would get the #8. If you're looking for a Jack for rough work I would suggest getting an old Stanley. No reason to spend $300 for a roughing plane. Just my .02.

Rocky

Re: Birthday's a commin'...Which plane next?

Todd from San Jose


>Thanks for the response, Rocky.

I will also use the #5 for finer work when it's size would suit the job better than the larger #8 or smaller #4. The LN allows me to to tighten the mouth, and I could reduce the iron's camber. Based on my previous experience trying to tune a lower cost plane, I'd prefer to buy one that is ready to use right out of the box (aside from the iron). My previous (non-LN) plane's chip-breaker and sole were nightmares to get to work right. So I'd like to stick with the LN for the #5. The LV low angle jack is enticing though, because of the price delta.

Todd

Re: Birthday's a commin'...Which plane next?

Rock Eulo


>Todd

I understand your point about wanting to stick with new planes and if you're wanting to use the #5 as a large smoother then the LN will be a great choice. I would still recommend getting a used Jack (from the sounds of it you may already have one) for rough work. They can be had cheap and that way you can keep your LN set up for finer work. If you don't have a good jointer now, I would get the #8. Of course I may be a little biased because that is the next plane I want. FWIW my LV BU Jack is my favorite plane.

Rocky

Re: Birthday's a commin'...Which plane next?

Dan Clermont in Burnaby


>The LN 5.5 makes an excellent smoother due to the weight. Little long for small projects but big enough for bookcases and such. That is if you think you could use a better smoother. It walso works well at jointing and flattening smaller boards.

I wouldn't buy a LN 5 as a roughing plane or to use as a jack plane. I would buy some cruddy beat up old 5 off the Bay I can use for initial board prep before following up with my cherished planes

Definitely would go with the LN 8 over the LN 7. I like the weight and extra width. It is a beast at 10 pounds but it becomes effortless when you wax the sole during flattening or jointing.

Dan Clermont

Re: Birthday's a commin'...Which plane next?

Jason Wood


>I have a # 8 and I love it. I think the larger mass allows you to take the shavings with much less effort once you get started on the swipe. This will make it better than the # 7. However the Blade on the # 8 is 2 5/8 inches and won't fit in the jig for my Tormek. I have to use the planer jig which isn't as easy to use. The # 7 - # 4 blade is 2 3/8 inches and fits in the Tormek plane blade jig and is interchangeable. Plus you can put the high angle frog in the #7 and not the #8. That would be the only reason to go with the #7.

Re: Birthday's a commin'...Which plane next?

Todd from San Jose


>Aaah, good to know, as I have a Tormek as well. I usually use my water stones for plane irons anyhow, and my LV MKII sharpening jig will accept the #8 iron. So hopefully this won't be a big trade-off.

The high angle frog's availability on the #7, but not on the #8, is a con for the #8. I've been wondering how often I would want a HAF for the jointer. I was hoping that, as long as my smoother has a HAF, I can clean up a little tearout from the #8. What do you think?

Todd

Re: Birthday's a commin'...Which plane next?

Thom D


>I use my Jointer almost exclusively for jointing. I don't think there is any major advantage in flatening, and the major disadvantage is the 9 pound weight which isn't useful at any time in the kind of work this sort of plane was actually designed to do. There will not be a quality difference in the result using an LN 8, or a top Japanese woodie or C&W woodie that may weight 5-7 pounds less. The weight is just breaking your back.

All that said, the only Stanley kind of plane I really like is my Record 7, if the LN 8 had been around at the time it would have been that much better. If you need a jointer buy one, but once you get all your planes you will probably find you use your jointer mostly for that alone. Depends on your scale of work.

Every plane has a certain sweet spot, so if your LN 8 was the exact right plane for a certain scale of work you specialized in, it would be a do everything plane. It's like shovels. If you need to dig a certain sized hole, like tree planting, then there is a perfect size of shovel. If all you do is plant trees then it's the "all around shovel". But it might be too big or small for another purpose like digging a foundation. So there isn't really any do-all magic, but a jointer is an indispensible plane.

Interestingly, a bostbuilder's planes (a guy working every day in the same yard, not a sailor) were often smaller than a cabinetmakers. It's not because of the size of the work was smaller...

Re: Birthday's a commin'...Which plane next?

Todd from San Jose


>How important do you think the #7's high angle frog option is? This would be the only reason I might steer towards the #7, instead of the #8.

Thanks

Todd

Re: Birthday's a commin'...Which plane next?

Todd from San Jose


>Good shovel analogy on the sweet spots of plane sizes. This is the reason I'm going to go with the LN #5, rather than a beater jack plane. I may use it for roughing at times, smoothing at times, and flattening for smaller work at times. In the end, I hope to have small (#4), medium (#5), and large (#7 or #8) bench planes to cover the range of projects I do.

Re: Birthday's a commin'...Which plane next?

Andrew Dix


>I don't feel that the high angle frog for the jointer is necessary, or even helpful. A higher angle frog increases the resistance to the cut, and taming tearout is not a necessity for a jointer. If you decide to go with the jointer, I would go with the Lie-Nielsen No. 8. I purchased one a few months ago and have been well pleased with it. It is the largest plane I have used, and the heaviest, so it did take a bit of getting used to. I guess I'm just used to my Lie-Nielsen No. 4.

Re: Birthday's a commin'...Which plane next?

Thom D


>Sounds like a good plan, buy them all, in due course. They always did in the past.

I'm a big suporter of LN stuff, but if you haven't tried a good wooden plane I would run not walk to a place where you can try them out. Metal is great for it's ability to hold dimensions, usually. But if you are going to do a lot of plane work, wood usually serves better. I have 50-100 planes of all types, I have no real idea. So I'm not pro or con any basic type. I have fairly complete sets of home made, infil, japanese, german, english, and chinese planes in wood and metal. All my every day users are wood, except the 7, and if my dad hadn't given me that one I'm not sure whether it would still be part of the lineup. To go back to the shovels, a shovel is just a blade with a wooden handle on it. And so is a wooden plane. I don't know about you , but on purely functional grounds I generally prefer my shovels, chisels, axes, hammers etc... to have wooden handles, better weight and feel. If i'm providing that stuff to day labour, give me fiberglass or steel handles, but not for me.

There is no way to go wrong with the LN.

Re: Birthday's a commin'...Which plane next?

Dan Clermont in Burnaby


>Don't get the high angle frog for a LN 7 as it will make it too hard to push and you will use your smoothing plane to take care of the tearout anyhow.

If you are one of those guys who like the idea of buying a set of bench planes with 2 3/8" wide blades and different frogs such as the york and standard go with the LN 5.5 and LN 7 but for me I like my LN 8 the way it is and am very happy with the LN 5.5 york pitch I own. Not sure why I bought the LN Bronze 4.5 other then the length of the LN 5.5 is a bit much on short boards

Dan Clermont

By the way, when is your Birthday? Mine is Sept 29th

Re: Birthday's a commin'...Which plane next?

Thom D


>I agree with every word of that. If you owned several planes would a high angle one ever be the prefered tool, sure, but as an option on a single one, never needed one in 30 years. You can go back over a jointed surface with an anti-tear-out plane if need be.

I mean, if you want to find a reason to dis the 8, it's simpler than that. It's basically the weight and size of the thing. You always are going to have to use some skill with a jointer at some point. They stop being automatice somewhere between the 36" and 72" level, depending on your set-up. So you are always going to have to use them with some skill. So is the extra weight and cost worth it for the added capacity. I don't really see it. You can pair all wood up to 1" for freehand jointing. That's cabinet sides, thin table tops, , almost everything out of the 7. Probably the only thing I couldn't do back to back was the top on my dinning room tressle table, or goofy heavy stuff like workbenches. I don't remmember that being a problem. On stuff like leg stock you are probably out of either's range for back to back, but you don't do that kind of stuff that way.

The main appeal of the 8 is that like the spinal tap movie where there is one amp in the rockstar's collection that goes to "11", not just has the top spot on the dial marked "10", the eight just feels like you can't get anything better. So you have to decide whether you want the extra weight and cost of the 8 which is of little practical utility. I just know that if I was buying now it would bug me not to have supersized it. though it would be stupid from a susing point of view, since I have never really wanted anything else than the seven in all these years. But periodically a little bug enters my head saying I should buy an 8 just to see why they ever bothered to make it in the first place. I mean it was dropped for decades, "nobody" cared.

The thing to keep in mind is that the LN line started out as a hotrod shop, and now they are General Motors. So they gained a lot of ground by offering the oddball stuff, but what is really the best thing for everyday use? It could be misleading when you gained your street cred from racing.

Well...

Scott Burr in Ben Lomond CA


>A LN 8 would be SWEET! After reading about the work you do a 5 with a 50 deg frog sounds more needed. Just put the HA frog on your 4 and leave it there. I have a feeling you won't be using it on your 5 that much.

Happy b-day Todd!

Re: Birthday's a commin'...Which plane next?

Todd from San Jose


>I have had some great experiences using wooden planes, and not-so-great ones. I attended a hand planing class where we dimensioned lumber and built a project, solely with hand tools. The instructor prided himself that every plane in the class was exceptionally tuned and sharp. I used a scrub, jack, jointer, then a smoother (all made of wood- some were German, some Japanese) to dimension the lumber, and they worked fantastic.

Then, I bought my own wooden planes. I'm a little embarrassed to admit that I probably put 20 hours into trying to tune my wooden planes, and never got them to perform anywhere near as well as he had. I understand the theory behind the steps to tune a plane, but I suppose my inexperience led to frustration. This was particularly frustrating, because I've accomplished a reasonable skill at hand-cut dovetails, cabriole legs with ball and claw feet, and other challenging tasks. But hand planes had still been kicking my butt.

Then, a friend of mine brought over his LN smoother and LV bevel up jack, which were night and day better than my woodies. So I threw in the towel on the woodies, bought the LN smoother, and have been spending my time building projects, instead of trying to tune my planes.

I may try wooden planes again in the future, but I'm still a rookie at hand plane tuning. As the father of three young children, I barely have enough time to get down to the shop. The idea of getting metal planes that require very little tuning, that I don't have to de-tension after each use, and that won't go out of flat over time, has pushed me towards the LNs and LV planes. So for now at least, I'm a metal plane fan.

Re: Birthday's a commin'...Which plane next?

Todd from San Jose


>I don't picture myself swapping frogs very often, so it sounds like the #8 would be a good jointer for me.

By the way, you got the LN anniversary bronze 4.5? Nice plane, does the extra weight benefit smoothing? That thing is a beast, for a smoother, and I mean that in a very complementary way :-) I kind of reminds me of the heft of an infill plane, not that I've ever experienced on myself.

You're a step ahead of me, my B-day is Oct 14th. What's on your wish list?

Todd

Re: Well...

Todd from San Jose


>Thanks Scott.

Based on the responses, I really could see myself choosing either one.

Maybe I'll just leave it up to my better half. Oh wait, she'll go for the less expensive one. Oh, what to do, what to do... I'm not complaining, this is a good problem to have.

How about the

Todd O. Cronkhite Maine Native Presently Away :~(


>LN or LV Low Angle Jointer? Seems to me that it would do jointing just fine, and be very versitile for many many other purposes, plus be easy in the relm of tear out. I also believe you can get a toothed blade for it to deal with highly fiqured woods.

Coarse, I wouldn't know as mine is still sitting in it's box like it has for upteen years.

Any LN/LV Low angle Jointers users out there?

Don't forget about Steve Knights planes. I don't know much about them, but I do believe that they are made of woods that are very stable, and they do get rave reviews.

Happy B-day to ya' either way you choose you'll be happy no doubt.

Todd O.

No financial interest in any of the mention tool dealers.

Yes... And Todd,

Scott Burr in Ben Lomond CA


>"No financial interest in any of the mention tool dealers."

Yea right Todd, you have financial intrest in all of them...;D

I have the LN LA jointer, it's a very nice plane even if it doesn't have an adjustable mouth.

Re: Birthday's a commin'...Which plane next?

Dan Clermont in Burnaby


>Hi Todd,

I don't have my LN 4.5 Bronze plane as of yet and don't expect to see it anytime soon. I will probably sell off my Bedrock 604.5 and my SPier's when it arrives to cover the cost.

You will enjoy the LN 8

My Birthday list???? I don't know. I truly have most of the tools I need and don't like to have allot of extras kicking around. I sure would like to get my name on the list for one of Rob Cosman's courses in Calgary Alberta or some spokeshaves and tenon saws. COuld also use an 8" grinder so I can hollow grind my blades.Could also used a new/used set of downhill ski's now that the kids are old enough

Seems silly to say I don't need more tools but I am very happy with my LN 5.5, LN 8, LN 62 and Berg chisels along with my shoulder planes and Rabbetting planes.

Cheers

Dan Clermont

Re: How about the

Todd from San Jose


>Thanks Todd and Scott. Yep, the LV and LN LA jacks are definitely in the running. I kind of favor the LV, since I've used it, liked it, and it has an adjustable mouth.

But because I want the york pitch frog for my #4 LN, I can get it for free in the #5 LN, and swap frogs. So, the difference in price between the LN #5 Vs. the LV LA jack is only $10 (if I were to buy the york frog seperately, along with the LV LA jack). Boy, that was probably pretty confusing, eh?

So it all comes down to which jack plane is the best choice, as the price is a wash for me. The harder choice is whether to ask my sweetie-pie to splurge for the #8 jointer, which'd cost quite a bit more than the jack. But hey, I sold a lot of tools and an industrial pressure washer at that garage sale, which would more than pay for both planes. Wait, I'm getting carried away (maybe on a stretcher, if I ask my wife for both!)

-Todd

Re: Birthday's a commin'...Which plane next?

Thom D


>That's the thing, everything fits in somewhere. It is pretty amazing to have these planes that come out of the box in working condition. Most wooden plane woes, as with other planes, just come down to the plane being flat, the blade being sharp, and well beded, and the mouth being properly adjusted. I have three young children too. So far they haven't taken sides in the plane wars.

Re: Birthday's a commin'...Which plane next?

Thom D


>I think the weight does help with a smoother, because the tolerances are so tight, you need to keep down on the work to get an even cut. But the design issue is how is weight vs, centre of gravity, hand position relative to the cut, ease of movement over the surface, etc... So weight is only one way of getting there, but it is one way.

Low angle jack? LN#9?

Ian (in Sydney, Australia)


>Todd

I've read the discussion above, and your desire to get a high angle from to swap into your #4, but can I suggest a LN low angle jack?

Open the mouth to hog out thick shavings, tighten it right up to take gossamer thin ones. Swap in a high angle blade when you want to reduce tearout.

OR

a LN#9 mitre plane. Great for getting the length or angle on a piece just right (should the #9 be renamed the "Goldilocks plane"?)

I was given one (by LOML) for my b'day just past and really like it, especially when I used it to edge joint shortish pieces of Queensland Tiger Maple.