Making ferrules?

Re: Making ferrules?

Roy Hennagir


>I put em on the handle and knock em off while turning. I use an old crapsman lathe tool.

Thread it on a dowel and...

Scott Burr in Ben Lomond CA


>Chuck it in a drill press and use a mill file on it. Use a low speed!

Hydraulic hose ferrules easier

bill tindall


>I get these at place that makes up hydralic hoses for earthmovers and the like. So cheap they often just give them to me. They come in a multitude of sizes

Related thread on turning forum.  *LINK*

Edward Damewood, Northern Alabama



Related thread on turning forum.

Re: Making ferrules? *PICs*

William Duffield, on the Cohansey


>I usually use a file, but just about any turning tool will turn brass, bronze or copper.

Re: Making ferrules? *PICs*

Bob Hutchins in central TX


>Good graphics! Thank you, Sir William!

I don't have lathe but have a need for a few file handles. Thought I'd try making them with chisels, rasps, etc. Will the brass compression nut technique help keep them from splitting, or is this a turner's-only technique? I made some from what I thought was dry dogwood (years old in the shop) and they split.

TIA

BobH

Re: Making ferrules? *PICs*

Glenn Madsen near San Francisco


>Some woods will do that. Murphy's laws, I guess.

I made some file & rasp handles from soft maple, when I was learning to turn spindles. Plumbing parts for ferrules. Seem to have worked just fine, really. A little BLO & shellac for a finish does OK.

Of course, they don't look like those beauties from Chester Toolworks...

Re: Making ferrules? *PICs*

Moses Yoder in White Pigeon, MI


>Sir William, you could probably get $400 for that article, from Popular Woodworking ;)

Re: Making ferrules? *PICs*

William Duffield, on the Cohansey


>Over the years, I've written lots more on ferrule making with photos, both here and on the turning forum. Just search the archives, and you get it all for free. In my mind, that's a much better deal then even the best paper ww magazine on the market.

I've also demonstrated the tooling and techniques I use at 5ive Barns and at a couple of woodturning club meetings. I think that teaching method gets the information on this particular technique across better than lots of photos, words, and diagrams.

What I guess I need to do is write up an article for WoodCentral, with a few more photos showing my latest tooling improvements.

Re: Making ferrules? *LINKS*

William Duffield, on the Cohansey


>Ferrules, from any metal, will help immensely to keep file handles from splitting. Reference the WoodCentral Articles and Reviews for an excellent discussion:

Burning in Handles

The technique I illustrate in my diagram really requires a lathe (or at least a drill press) to get a good fit between the wood and the compression nut. My intent is to get a fit that doesn't require glue or a pin to hold the ferrule in place, or the need to hammer the ferrule in place, and a very good looking tool, but one that is way beyond necessary functionality.

The inexpensive spun brass ferrules sold by Lee Valley have more than sufficient strength for the purpose, and are much easier to fit if you are shaping the tenon by hand. As we note in the WC article, don't rule out a dab of 5 minute epoxy to get a good fit between the ferrule and the wooden handle, or between the wood and the metal tang.

For many operations, a non-turned handle, or a handle with a couple of flat sides, has advantages over a turned handle. Handles are turned because turning is quick (if you have a lathe), lends itself to automated manufacturing processes, and looks good. Reference discussions here and in Popular Woodworking by Adam Cherubini, et al, on octagonal handles.

LV ferrules+non-turned handles

Frank D. in Montreal


>Here's an example of both (the LV ferrules are a lot stronger than they look):

Thanks!

Tony - Memphis


>Thanks all. i posted this ont he turning board too. Lots of good info.

Tony

Re: How the ferrule works

William Duffield, on the Cohansey


>Wow! That's a beautiful set of dovetail chisels, Frank. Would you like to say anything about the origin of the blades?

Re: Bob's question on the dogwood:

Dogwood is a good choice for a tool handle, but it does require a ferrule.

Wooden handles do not work with tanged steel tools, because the wood is very weak under tension, while it is relatively strong under compression. Just about any force applied to the handle by a tapered tang applies lateral forces which will split the handle. This is the principle used by a froe, which is designed to easily split wood along the grain. A metal ferrule is very strong in tension. As long as you can keep it from deforming from round to eliptical (sometimes called "oil canning"), it will work against all the splitting forces applied by the tang. Even a full, sealed aluminum beer can is relatively resistant to crushing, because liquids are non-compressible. Even a very thin metal ferrule works, even something as thin as an aluminum beer can, as long as it is completely filled with the wood, and the wood is dense enough to resist compressive forces.

Even if you form the tenon by hand, you can make it sufficiently non-compressible by filling the space between the handle and the ferrule with epoxy. However, if you burn in the tang, make sure you complete that step before applying the epoxy, as the heat will break down the epoxy.

A solid metal ferrule is not necessary. A wrapped and glued wire or even non-stretch whipped string will also work, if that's all you have available. Wrapped ferrules are, of course, more subject to failure due to surface abrasion than solid metal.

It is not necessary to extend the ferrule the whole length of the tang. Splitting forces you would encounter in normal use start at the free end of the handle, not in the middle. As long as the spit cannot start, it cannot propagate. For heavy duty chisels, struck with a large hammer, a striking ring on the butt end may be appropriate, but is not necessary for files, or for paring chisels or dovetail chisels that are pushed instead of struck.

Re: How the ferrule works

Frank D. in Montreal


>Hi William,

Thanks for all this info your so generously churning out.

The blades on my chisels are made from A2 bar stock, shaped with a 6" grinder, some files, and a hack saw. I got them heat treated at an industrial place in my town.

I used tenon cutters on my DP to fit the ferrules. The fit was pretty tight so I didn't need to use glue. What surprised me about the LV brass ferrules was that, even if they seem quite thin, I couldn't crush them between my thumb and my forefinger. They didn't even budge one iota when I tried with 2 hands, to my chagrin. A quick sanding gives them a brushed look, not too bad.

Re: Hey, Rob Lee

William Duffield, on the Cohansey


>Great tip, Frank! A tenon cutter should even work in a brace or eggbeater, obviating the electron eating knuckle cracker. For those of us who don't have the specialty tools to do Windor or other stick chairs, I wonder if a plug cutter would work, instead? I suspect it wouldn't work as well, since it's cutting geometry is designed for face grain, not end grain.

A set of combination bits, each with a cooncentric tapered drill bit and tenon cutter, might be a good opportunity for Rob and Co., to compliment their ferrules.

Re: Hey, Rob Lee

Rob Lee


>Hi William -

(Hope "Marty" doesn't take offense at me replying.... :) )

We did just release the tapered cutters for chairmaking, that have a 12-13 degree included angle (slope of 6 1/2 degrees or so on the taper)...with the matching reamers...

Don't think we could do better for less (it's $12 for the reamer, and a tenon cutter is $18.5) ... though we could consider a different angle.

Not sure one would want much less of an angle for socket type applications though - as there's a relationship between the compressibilty of the wood, and the "travel" down the socket.... too weak of a taper, and the handle may bottom out...

Have you got a specific figure in mind?

Cheers -

Rob

Re: Hey, Rob Lee

William Duffield, on the Cohansey


>??? Somehow, I don't think we're on the same page. Let me try again to explain my half-cooked idea. You start with a blank of wood, maybe 1" square, and as long as a handle. After shaping the blank with spoke shave, rasp, file, scraper, etc., you chuck this hypothetical tool in a brace, eggbeater, or electric drill. In a single operation, the tool would drill a pilot hole in the end of this blank for the tang of a file, carving gouge, or chisel at the same time that it formed a tenon that would be just a smidgen larger than the I.D. and the same length as of one of your ferrules. The tenon would need very little, if any, taper, since your ferrules have a small flair at the end. If one practiced the burning in of tangs, then the pilot hole would not need much, if any taper, either, but would need to be deeper than the length of a typical tang. The fit to the tang does not have to be perfect. The red hot tang burns the wood away to fit its shape.

In the photo, the handle has been shaped, the pilot hole and tenon have been drilled with the proposed gizmo, the ferrule has been driven onto the tenon, the file is clamped tang up in a metal machinist's vise, which serves as a heat sink, the propane torch has heated the tang red hot, and the handle is being plunged onto the tang. Sometimes, two or three repetitions are needed. The final step is to release the tool from the vise, holding it by the handle, turn it over, and rap the end of the handle on the bench top to seat the tang.

A little more smoke 

Frank D. in Montreal

Re: But no mirrors? :^)

William Duffield, on the Cohansey

Re: Oops

William Duffield, on the Cohansey


>Rob,

I woke up this morning with a very clear understanding of why my idea is impractical, and why I thought we were on "differen pages". The typical cutting angle on a typical plug cutter is close to 90�, which works fine when cutting across the grain or with the grain, but doesn't do so well when cutting end grain. I tried using one this morning to cut into some poplar. It worked, but unacceptably heated the tool and smoked. An effective cutting geometry which would work for this purpose would have to emulate a shoulder plane, with a very low cutting angle.

I now understand why the cutting geometry of your tenon cutters works well with a tapered tenon, because they emulate a rabbet plane cutting cheeks. but could not be made to work with a non-tapered tenon, unless the cutting blade was made to be able to move radially.

I think I have an idea that will work. I'll e-mail you a diagram.

Re: How the ferrule works

Bob Hutchins in central TX


>Howdy Sir William, OTC!

That is a lot of very good information. I hadn't worked out in my head how and why a ferrule works. I thought that the dogwood would have stayed together because it is so densely grained and was so thoroughly dried. Didn't figure that the rake of the file's tang would exert enough force to split wood so stable.

As for shaping the handle to accept a ferrule, it seems that a tool with the cutting geometry of an old fashioned pocket pencil sharpener without the conical taper would be the thing. They could even be made in various sizes for different types of tools. When the cutting stops, you've got the size of the ferrule inner diameters and the correct depth. What's wrong with my logic?

If it is feasible, this seems like a good Galootish way to form handles for those of us who don't have a lathe.

Thanks for the post!

BobH