Hand grip for sawing

Practice

Bill Houghton, Offshore Flo's back! Sebastopol, CA


>Part of this is learning muscle memory, something that occurs only with some practice. What I found helped when learning, as I best recall:

1. Grip the saw handle by the second through fourth fingers and thumb, with the index finger pointing.

2. Get in the habit of keeping your hand, wrist, and forearm in a straight line.

3. Position yourself so that the upper arm and shoulder can move in a steam-engine-piston sort of way. The shoulder should be basically in line with the cut.

4. Don't force it; picture your forearm and the saw moving in a straight line. It sounds corny, but this visualization helps the body understand how to move.

5. Get some scrap and practice, practice, practice. Works for musicians, who are more reliant on muscle memory than practically any other trade; it'll work for you.

Interestingly, once you learn to saw this way, you can saw in odd positions and still make it work.

Re: Hand grip for sawing

mikew


>Hi John,

What saw is it? I ask because the handle hang--angle of the handle in relation to the toothline--can also have an effect on how you should hold the saw in relation to the angle the saw's "attack" to the wood is.

If the hang is low, the angle of the saw to the wood should be higher than if it is a higher hang. As well, the height of the wood being sawn affects holding the saw.

Hold the saw so your wrist is in-line with your forearm and let the saw come to the edge of the wood by raising/lowering the forearm at the elbow. Use a straight "piston" type of movement of the forearm/upper arm, but try to keep the wrist straight in-line with the forearm.

And practice practice practice...

Take care, Mike

This is how I was told. and ya know...

Scott Burr in Ben Lomond, CA


>Cargniee hall.

Lock the wrist? NM

Larry Gelder

Re: Hand grip for sawing

david.marcus.brown


>The more I hand saw, the better I get. I spent this weekend hand cutting a bunch of tenons. I also built the saw bench that was detailed in this issue of Woodworking Magazine. The more you use your saws the more confident and proficient you'll get.

I prefer not to think of it that way

Bill Houghton, Offshore Flo's back! Sebastopol, CA


>I prefer not to think of it as "locking" the wrist, because this implies a level of muscle tension that winds up counterproductive. There's a fine balance in the use of hand tools between holding the body parts firmly aligned in the proper relationship required by the particular tool and action, and the looseness that's necessary to (a) respond to any needed corrections, and (b) keep yourself from getting tired.

It's a little like the balance needed to ride a bicycle - too tight, and you'll fall over; too loose, and you'll fall over. Just right, and Goldilocks is your aunt.

This is, I think, true for every hand tool. Our younger son stopped by yesterday, and was discussing his cello and bass (that's bass viol, not bass guitar) playing in what I guess you'd have to call alt-old timey music, and we digressed into a discussion of French vs. German bows for the bass. He's thinking of getting a German bow rather than the French bow he's been using, because it allows for different grips, and was demonstrating the grip styles in the air; and it got me remembering my brief, one-year experiment with bass in high school, and the need to find a grip that allowed for good playing without hand fatigue.

Re: Hand grip for sawing

Adam Cherubini, NJ


>Do you mean the cut is beveled? I do that. I'm chicken and I lean toward the center of the board so I don't undercut the line on the bottom side. Its like darts (at least for me) To move sideways, I move my whole body sideways.

Aside from that, its always a good idea to relax your grip. See how loosely you can hold your saw.

Adam

Re: Hand grip for sawing

Pam Niedermayer - Austin, TX


>For both Japanese and western saws I try to pivot the sawing action on my shoulder, with a minor pivot at the elbow. The forearm should maintain a steady relationship with the saw with a firm but not tight grip. Then I allow the weight of the saw to apply any downward force, merely move my arm back and forth.

Pam

What I mean is...

John Hoffman


>Is there some idea on how to grip the saw, as in I can have the palm of my hand on the handle or move my hand toward the end of the saw blade and reduce the amount of "palm" on the handle. I know that this effects shooting a pistol and result in pulling the barrel left or right. I am trying to determine if the wrist is bent at all in relation to the back of the hand or the forarm/wrist/back of hand are all in one line.

Thanks

JH

Re: What I mean is...

mikew


>Hi John. The answer is...Yes. At least if any of those work for you. And No, if they do not.

In general, one would teach another to not break the wrist whether up/down/left/right, to leave it in-line with the forearm.

That advice should cure the issue of rotating the saw up/down.

As to how much palm is on the saw at a given moment, do what is both comfortable and works for you. Depending on what I am sawing with which saw, I grip the saw slightly different. And some handles encourage a different grip. Most of the issue as regards the motion you describe in the original post is to be found in the wrist/forearm relationship.

Take care, Mike

Thanks, makes sense.

John Hoffman

Re: What I mean is...

Deirdre Saoirse Moen


>I find that I'm most successful (for very small values of successful, btw) when I rotate the top of my wrist slightly more "out" than feels normal. That is actually vertical for me.

I suspect this may be related to the slightly odd hang of my arm, so this may not be helpful for you.

Re: Hand grip for sawing

Sgian Dubh


>The funny thing is John that I'm still not sure what kind of saw you are using! I've read through all the posts in this thread a couple of times and only your description of sliding your hand up or down nearer the blade leads me to conclude that you're probably using a Japanese saw.

Anyway, be that as it may, I find that learners tend to cramp themselves up whatever kind of saw they're working with. The result is that their elbow tends to bump into their gut or hip and they can't follow a line. So here's a wee training exercise that I get beginners to practice when they have trouble.

Don't even hold a saw to start with. Just start by letting your sawing arm hang down straight, palm towards your thigh. Then swing the arm backwards and forwards gently in a straight line. You should find your forearm just about brushing your thigh and your arm swinging in only one plane-- I guess it's a bit like marching although I've never marched to know really.

Next as you swing the arm, gently bend the elbow until the forearm is about level with the ground. Keep the upper arm motion going and keep the lower arm level with the ground. Now you've got a straight in line pumping action that's perpendicular with the plane of your chest and back.

Next, stick a saw in your fist and get that straight pumping motion back. Lastly you have to use that motion on a piece of wood. You stand square on to the cut you're making, crank your neck to the sawing arm side whilst keeping your head vertical. Get your nose directly above and centred on the top edge of the blade. Now you have your right eye looking down the right side of the blade, and the left looking down the left side.

It's confusing at first but, if you maintain that mechanical in line pumping of the arm you'll soon get a sense of what's right. With practice you'll find the movement becomes second nature and you can start to move your upper body to positions that aren't square on to the cut, bend forward, and even move your head about to check progress and accuracy.

One useful tip I use with beginners. If you need to check the line you're cutting, stop sawing, have a look, make adjustments and start sawing again. With time it'll all become seamless and you'll check and make adjustments as you cut.

Still, if I could tell for sure what kind of saw you're using I might be able to help with tips on grip. But at least if you get the motion right that'll get rid of one potential cause of your problems. Slainte.

LN Tennon saw filed crosscut; thanks

John Hoffman