Sharpening Japanese chisels

Microbevels on Japanese Chisels

Steve Elliott


>My favorite chisels are Japanese and I use a microbevel on them. There may be reasons for the Japanese tradition of using a polished flat bevel but I'm not aware of any performance problems that result from use of a microbevel.

Re: Sharpening Japanese chisels *LINK*

Pam Niedermayer - Austin, TX


>The advantage of Japanese chisels is the lamination. In this case the tool steel layer is very much thinner than the backing iron, and it needs the support of the thick iron to operate at an optimum performance level. If you subvert this mating area by hollow grinding, you've subverted the advantage of the lamination, and, therefore, Japanese chisels. Why spend piles of extra dollars to get same old same old?

Steve may be correct, he sees no performance hits, but I prefer to err on the side of what I know works. Also, I get no joy from grinding, prefer the meditative quality of waterstone sharpening.

You may want to review the many messages on this topic on the Hiraide forum, link below.

Pam


Hiraide Japanese Woodworking forum

Re: Sharpening Japanese chisels

Frank D. in Montreal


>Hi Pam,

Believe me these chisels won't be going near a grinder.

To get a secondary bevel I just lift the chisel a bit after registering the primary bevel on the stone. I'll check out the Hiraide forum too.

Re: Sharpening Japanese chisels

Pam Niedermayer - Austin, TX


>Oh, sorry for the misunderstanding. A microbevel? This is often ground on large Japanese chisels used to chop a lot, say mortises for dai bodies or in timber frame mortises, and the like. It seems to add some strength to those already strong chisels, made to chop. I don't think this would add anything to bench chisels, which are sort of all purpose, intended to be used for paring as well as chopping.

Pam

Re: Sharpening Japanese chisels

Brent Smith in Montreal


>I've never put a micro bevel on a Japanese bench chisel. Because of the way I sharpen them, I find it kind of pointless. A micro bevel is to make subsequent honings quicker, but with Japanese chisels I always do some work on the back when I sharpen or hone. By working the back it keeps the hollow progressing along the blade with the bevel. I also find that they hold their edge a lot longer than western chisels, so again having the extra honings is not really neccessary. I don't have any Japanese mortise chisels, but if I did, I would probably give them a secondary bevel just to strengthen the striking edge.

Re: Sharpening Japanese chisels

ThomD


>The main argument against it is that the chisel is specially constructed to provide you with a large registration surface on the bevel so that you can polish efficiently without feeling the need to use a jig or micro bevel, because the soft iron is easily polished compared to the edge, and the bevel is wide enough that it is easy to register. So sure you can go against the flow of intended use, and it won't hurt anything. But you are possibly limiting your growth by doing that also. Not I suppose if you try it all

Also, when it comes to using the chisels there are some subtleties to the way they are used that changing the dive angle and registraion surface are going to sabotage for you. But then again, maybe you are planing on using them as the blade in an LV chisel plane and it won't really matter. :0)

You can dry grind japanese chisels if you feel like it, particularly any made with HSS. I'm sure they don't put the grinds in them by hand.

I did grind some Japanese chisels with micro bevels and long slopes as Krenov advises in his book, and they worked really well, though it really hurts me to look at them. The pictures in his book didn't bother me, I just didn't like doing it to my chisels.

Thanks everyone

Frank D. in Montreal


>Makes sense; I'll try with a flat bevel first and see how it goes. Can't wait to try them out tomorrow.

Flat, Flat, Flat...

Scott Burr in Ben Lomond, CA


>They just like it that way;^)

What brand did you get

Jim in Burlington On


>I haven't taken the plunge but with so many different brands which did you choose if I may ask.

Re: Sharpening Japanese chisels

paul womack


>Why don't the Japanese use microbevels?

The thickness of the blade, combined with a low bevel angle, makes the bevel very large. This has the disadvantage you point out, of working on a large metal surface when you sharpen.

The upside is that it becomes much easier for the operator to balance the entire chisel on the bevel when using the stone, allowing rather accurate maintainance of the bevel angle. (This is even more true for the plane blades, which are even thicker and even shorter)

So - large single bevel is a sharpening aid.

BugBear

Re: What brand did you get

Frank D. in Montreal


>Hi Jim, I as also kind of confused by all the different brands available, so I got Tasai from Hiraide (japanesetools.com). I was told I couldn't go wrong. A little pricey but they were a present to myself for getting a new job. Tasai only makes them to fill orders, so they can take a little while to arrive from Japan. Mine took took four or five months.

Re: What brand did you get

ThomD


>Tasai are really wonderful chisels, they are the best I have tried from among quite a few brands, though I have the push chisels and some oversized mortise and some specialty chisels, only. If you got some expensive handles sight the alignment to make sure it's all really nice.

Re: What brand did you get

Frank D. in Montreal


>I got gumi handles and that's the first thing I checked...they are perfect. The hoops were already set too and whoever did it did a really nice job. Do you know what kind of steel they are made of (white or blue)? I couldn't find the info anywhere and forgot to ask...

Re: What brand did you get

ThomD


>I think mine are blue. It's all good, some people prefer either type of metal, with Gumi, I always seen blue steel, but that doesn't mean they don't come otherwise.