Wood Price Question

Re: Wood Price Question *LINK*

woodburnbob


>Here's what we pay in PDX.


Crosscut Hardwoods in PDX

Re: Wood Price Question

arw01


>Seems steep to me, and Spokane has even higher prices generally.

WIDE boards could be worth it, like 12" or so. But likely you will be cutting them down the joint them anyways.

You should call Steve Wall out on the east coast and get a quote for the same quanity shipped to you for comparison.

Alan

Re: Wood Price Question

Chad Pearson


>Seem's expensive to me for Iowa. I generally pay about 4.50 bd ft in MSP for everyday pricing. I occasionally find a better deal. Since most of the cherry I get is coming from Iowa or Wisconsin I would expect it to be cheaper still.

Granted...the typical lumberyard usually asks for more. I have now found a guy who brings in large lots from lumberyards in Iowa and sells out of his garage. For wide boards (greater than 12 inches) he charges 5.50.

I have found fairly large lots of 8/4 and 12/4 cherry near the Iowa border for about 3.50 a bd foot. It pays to shop around.

Re: Wood Price Question

Moses Yoder in White Pigeon, MI


>I think for nice wide select boards that are dried right and cut right $7.50 is not far off the regular retail price. There is a big difference between buying small retail lots and large wholesale lots, so the price we buy cherry for is about half your price, but the quality is not that great either. I think if you have the money I would try to talk him down some and then get what you can afford, but look around and see what else is available first as others suggested.

For that price I hope it's...

Scott Burr in Ben Lomond, CA


>Curly or quarter sawn Cherry. Seems high to me.

Actually, how relevant is this?

woodburnbob


>It's clear 1000BF @ $7.50 versus $3.75 means a difference of $3,750. I understand that.

But, what would you say is the generally assumed percentage of the value of a finished piece that is the cost of the wood?

Let's say we're talking about a beautifully done rocker, or china cabinet, or chest...a one-off piece done by an unknown but accomplished craftsman...neglecting any sentimental or heirloom components to the valuation.

Re: Wood Price Question

Chad Pearson


>I should qualify my statement above in light of the comments by Moses. By "large lots" I meant large for the home hobbiest. My purchases would be small by commercial standards. I bought about 650 bd feet of 4/4 for 3.50. This was mixed quality...some beautiful curly cherry as well as some crappy stuff (defined as the best side being 70% heartwood and little or no heartwood on the bad face). Most of it was pretty good.

In MSP I can get 95% heartwood fas for about 4.50 but I have to go to the little independant guy.

If you go to Rocklers or large lumber stores you can expect to pay about 6 dollars. The only time I buy there is when I find a board I can't pass up. If its a special board (clear, > 90% heartwood, nice figure, wide, etc.) I gladly pay the 6 bucks and set it aside for a nice project. It is always nice to have a pile of really nice "go to" cherry when you need it. It's not always possible to find the good stuff on short notice. Of course the wife is not so pleased with the piles of lumber that keep growing.

Re: Actually, how relevant is this?

Thom D


>That's a good point but I find that I have a huge inventory of wood that never seems to get smaller. If I was Thos Moser and relatively quickly put through wood to finished products and sold those, I would be golden. But it's tough to get the exact wood you need in the exact amount, for the varied projects I make. One buys a little more here and a litte more there, or gets a great deal on some stuff one uses a lot, and so forth. Any time you can see a direct saw-off for the materials it's not so bad, but it rarely seems to work out that way for me. So, I pretty much need to get my wood free (which costs in other ways) or at wholesale prices. I try not to spend more than 2 dollar a bft.

I think some of the smartest craftsmen like Maloof, and Beckvorsts have done a very smart thing in organizing their production to one species (mainly), and a minimum number of sizes and grades. I'm a serial abuser. As a non-commercial, I built a beech, bench and still have some of that; All kinds of turning stock is still in iventory. Parts left over froma dozen boats. A maple bench there was lots of etra from that lot. A pine bench. Thousands of bft of Cherry, various exotics for certain tools. Ossage for bows. About 10 guitars workth of lutherie wood etc... that wouldn't be an 1/8th of it. I try to never buy any new wood but it piles up anyway. People are always offering me free wood.

Re: Actually, how relevant is this?

Moses Yoder in White Pigeon, MI


>This is why good cherry is hard to get. An oak kitchen costing around $15,000 retail is only marked up a couple thousand dollars by a lot of companies to upgrade the wood to cherry. If you are spending $15K for a kitchen, you might as well spend a little bit more and get a much better looking kitchen. Two things I think are still undervalued in the US, gas and wood. The prices in the next thirty years will probably go through the roof unless I miss my guess. We can find alternative fuels, but I doubt we will ever find an alternative to a really nice cherry board.

Re: Wood Price Question

Tony - Memphis


>Its interesting how much differenec there is in prices across the country. That is a pretty good price around here. I've paid that and more. I have also ordered cherry from Bristol Valley and been real satisfied. To qualify, I only buy small amounts for a single project. Our local price for mahogany was $12/bdft last time I went to the woodstore!

Tony

For example, how many BF here? *LINK*

woodburnbob


>No affliation with piece or seller. Just picked an arbitrary example.

Ebay Rocker

What are the chances....

Todd Hughes


>they will sell that rocker?....Personaly I think they are off thier rocker trying to get $2,500 for that chair !...but never know. Hard to catch a fish if you don't put the bait in the water I guess, eh?.....Todd

Re: What are the chances....

woodburnbob


>Gosh, Todd, I thought I picked a pretty conservative example. When I found that chair, I'd googled "handmade rocking chair" and got a plethora of sites. I only spent a few minutes clicking around, but had the impression the average was around $4,000.

I've been in some homes in the neighborhood (2 block radius). Four of the homes (graying yuppies with older children still at home) have this sort of thing and more. When I ask about motivations, the responses are simple, "I liked it".

But no I wouldn't be able to do it. My surplus dollars are earmarked for property taxes, house & car insurance, a dramatic increase in winter heating costs, climbing utility prices, gasoline (of course), and other things of relative necessity.

I don't think there are very many venerable objects available to those who want, and can buy, something "handmade", beautiful, functional and suitable for long-term daily use. There are lots of people who yearn for a few "special" objects other than what is mass produced.

It'll be interesting to hear what others might think about BF and values.

Re: What are the chances....

Thom D


>I don't know about that. About 20 years ago I knew a guy who did a really good Maloof rocker. It was a lot closer to the one Sam made, though Sam makes a bunch of different models as far as details are concerned and I am not sure whether this guy had his own way of rolling all the edges etc... Anyway he got about 1000 in walnut, and he was doing good business at craft shows. Prices have sure gone up since then so I could see someone easily getting 2500 for that chair and that wood

I'm not sure I like the details on the chair like the heavy top, but if one did like the details, and if the wood is as nice as it looks in low res, and accepting for the moment that these things are screwed together with interlocking router joints. It might be a nicer chair than this one I am sure Moser is selling a ton of. Now Moser is a name of sorts, his chair is an original design and has all wood joinery as far as I know, but if one didn't know anything about either maker and just wanted an expensive chair...

http://www.thomasmoser.com/residential/res.products.view.php?product_id=94

http://www.thomasmoser.com/residential/res.products.view.php?from=cat&product_id=63

My favorite woodpricing is the cost of the upgrade on a guitar from something like mahogany, or maple to rosewood. A straight 500 bucks on a factory made guitar. Cost of rosewood sides about 40 bucks, cost of good maple 100, cost of mahogany 20-40 for plain grain at least until the list it as an endangered speicies. Great business decision to make as many rosewood guitars as possible. Now something like Brazilina when you can find it really does wholesale at 1000 dollars and up for a set.

It's similar to the rocker made at...

Ted Owen, Pittsburgh


>the Marc Adams Rocking Chair course. 45-60 BF per.

Best, Ted

Re: What are the chances....

Todd Hughes


>Well I guess we will know in a few days...I might be wrong but I personaly think this chair has a few things going against for it being sold.

.... First no name...Hey old Pat that made it might be a nice guy and a good woodworker but who has ever heard of him? ..or even more who has hyped him up so that his work will bring the big price. I have an old drop cloth that bears a remarkable resemblence to a Jackson Pollack painting....any one want it for the blow out price of $100,000 ?

....I think also it is very hard to sell a custom made item like this on a secondary market.People who may pay this for a chair like this want to buy it from the maker and feel it was made for them.Not off ebay from some middle man that is selling it for the maker. Very few custom made new items can be readly sold for what the original buyer paid for them because of this

....Would be much easier to sell a chair like this in person where the custamer can set in it and handle then it would be on ebay. The attraction in this chair is not what it "is" [a chair made by old Pat] but rather what it looks like and how it "Feels" to the buyer. Even though this seller did a good job presenting it still a hard thing to get by looking at a computer screen. Doesn't help since it is such a strange one off design. You might now what a misson style rocker is because you have seen many in person... but this thing?

....Very poor stratergy to start an auction off high like this. Much better to start it low and use a reserve. I would have like to see it start at $5 and that way we could have seen what it really was worth. Is what I would have done....

......Personaly while I can see the talent that it took to make it I think it is a rather poor and unattractive strange design that doesn't look like it would hold up very well though I do know some people do like such things.....Todd

Re: What are the chances....

Deirdre Saoirse Moen


>While I agree with most of your points, I don't think it's a strange one-off design. I regularly see Maloof-style rockers in galleries around here, enough so that I've said to myself NOT to do them should I decide to go the gallery route myself.

Re: What are the chances....

Thom D


>Todd, from a marketing perspective I guess I agree with what you say. It's not easy to sell really good woodwork that is way better than particle board crap for sometimes the same kind of prices. And sure, if someone starts making a lot of Maloof rockers in China out of rosewood, or something, the game is over.

I have seen a lot of things that represent worse value though. I have a pal who installs 2x stairs at new homes. They sell the homes without any front steps. Takes him about an hour to do them and he gets 350. He got 500 for installing 2 plywood shelves in someone's cupboard. What happened is he used to work for a home builder, but went out on his own and they contract out to him. So he has the name, and apparently people need shelves and stairs...

The problem with the market system is that while it has a suprising amount of wisdom in it, it gets a little shaky on the information level out towards the edges.

Moses you are spot on.

Victor P

Gotta factor in the fads

Dave Thompson


>Cherry is the fad wood of our time. Coincidence likely, but I associate the great increase in the price of cherry to about the same time Norm Abrams anounced on NYW that cherry was his favorite wood....

A few decades back, walnut was big, and there are still hold overs that think that walnut is expensive. I've found people selling walnut at $5/bf, and others who have difficulty unloading at $1.50/bf.

A distant relative of mine has a shabby deer shack in the woods that has hardwood floors of birds eye maple, put in when that was considered defective trash wood.

I'd be cautious about making an investment in Cherry.

FWIW, I last paid $2.50 for 250bf of clear cherry, and $.87/bf for 500bf of green FAS cherry, both from woodmiser guys.

Dave

Re: Wood Price Question

Dean J in MN


>WIDE boards could be worth it, like 12" or so. But likely you will be cutting them down the joint them anyways.

I find ripping long cherry boards is a lot of work, so I leave them as once piece when I face joint them.

-Dean

Re: Gotta factor in the fads

Thom D


>I don't think it has that much to to do with Norm, or not much. The way he lays on the stain you can start with rubber trees wood and get the same result. Now that he may have some role in.

I remember when red oak was everywhere, cherry is very popular, but if you walk into a good yard, the satgering amount of it that we have is way beyond what NYW has any control over. Red oak is a trash wood in furniture, though it somehow looks wonderful in stuff like chairs and all that, but it's rough and hard to finish well in the conract market. Now that expectations are upscale wood sellers have to offer a range of colours. And Cherry is the brown colour. Be it flouring or furniture. In architectural setting wood is not a big dollar item, compared to other "finishes".

The real surprise to me is maple, it used to be half the price of cherry, now there isn't any difference it is very popular in posh settings. Back in '87 when I stayed at the Pan Pacific hotel I got a bad feeling, the whole hotel, lobby, guest rooms, elevators etc.. was wallpapered in real birdseye maple. It was beautiful, I wonder it it is still up or whether they redecorated in something else and threw all the veneer in a dump. Sooner or later. I never worry about using wood, at least I'm not panelling disposable lighters with it.

Re: Actually, how relevant is this?

Thom D


>Depends who one is talking about. I mean I know where there are huge stands of great beeches. I could get enough wood out of one lot to make planes and benches professionaly for the rest of my life. I knocked over a free 16" cherry at a friends house last fall.

In places that are a lot more wood tight than here, like England. You could have filled your truck with any number of prize trees after a wind storm a few years back. In the city they cut down thousands of trees and just run them through ever larger chipers. So yeah, the market for wood will move off to as yet not commercial SA or Oz spcies, maybe, but there should always be a ton of wood out there for folks who know where to ask.

For a lot of people trees are an expensive problem. And while I am not going to cut down other people's trees if they are mixed in with wires etc... Not all the problem trees are around houses, sometimes they are on laneways etc... They regularly get knocked down in wind storms. The best trees are usually in woods, and I have had people ask me to clear out cherry because all they wanted were maples for syrop.