OT-rant

Re: OT-rant

Gerry D.


>I'm not familiar with NY law, but most collection attorneys in Illinois work on a contingency, or percentage fee. See if the local bar association can provide you with a refferal.

However, you may have a difficult time obtaining counsel considering the amount of the judgement.

Wish I could be of more help.

Gerry D.

why people pay for home inspections

bill tindall

Come on, Bill...

Denis Ch�nard, Orl�ans, Ont.


>I visited my current house with an inspector in April 2002, and there was a foot of snow on the roof, so he couldn't check the roof's shape. Then when he looked at the furnace the inspector mentioned that it was old, but obviously couldn't give an estimate on how long it would last. Same for the air conditioning. Happened that the fan motor blew up the next winter (during a holiday, of all times), and it cost $300 to get a replacement motor (took two visits). So far the furnace is still working, but a replacement is on its way. It could have broken down irremediably right after purchase, and so could have a number of other things in the house. Inspectors are not a panacea...

DC

Re: why people pay for home inspections

Glenn


>I had to get my home inspected by at "certified" home inspector before I could get my VA loan. I think it was about $500 payable at the time of the inspection, no exceptions. Bottom line: a complete waste of money and time. The home had a bad water heater which I pointed out at the time of inspection and he said it was fine. The air conditioner was not working but he said it was fine (it was the middle of July in Texas and it was cooler outside than inside the house!!!). And the stove was shot. You could smell gas whenever the stove was on but, again, that was not a problem. I did not care much about the stove or water heater because I knew I could replace both of them from less then $1000 but the AC was another story. Anyway I knew at the time of inspection that the guy did not have a clue and I was torqued that I had to hire, and pay, this guy under VA rules. Home inspectors are like anyone else; some are worth their weight in gold and others are worth their weight in �

Sorry, you just touched a sensitive nerve with me:)

if I understood correctly......

bill tindall


>the complaint was that it was known by the seller that the furnace did not work before closing. It is reasonable to assume that a certified inspector would have spotted the problem, especially so in the winter. I have accompanied several and all have tested these things. Heat/air units are normally dated by their manufactured date. On the last inspection I was involved in the inspector made a point of telling my daughter that the unit was 15 years old and near the end of its expected life.

Parts of my family build houses and I have built two and I still had both daughters hire inspectors when they bought homes. They were competent and found things that I missed that became bargining issues with the seller. I think they are good value and recommend them to anyone buying a home while apparently others do not. The bystanders can come to their own conclusions.

Re: why people pay for home inspections

Gary B in Central NY


>That's the kicker bill,

we had a "certified home inspection" done....we have the booklet, all the writing, see...the home during the time of purchase was being heated by an improperly vented gas fireplace insert (stuck in an unvented old wood burning stove, hence the problem) the owner said he used this because it was only him, and he didn't need it that warm. the inspector did fire the furnace, but apparently not long enough, if he was smart enough to do the job I paid him for, he would have figured it out.....it took the service tech I called to maintain it all of 10 seconds. it had a cracked heat exchanger. I still could sue the home inspector, but because of the clause (fine print) in his stupid booklet, it seems hes not really liable for anything. we were told by a judge that we could sue him instead for not noticing the improper venting of the gas fireplace insert (which we disconnected afterwards) we were trying to be smart when we bought this house, but it did indeed teach us a thing or two.

Thanks denis

Gary B in Central NY


>See my post below

Did You Go Through a Realtor?

Bob Hutchins in central Texas


>There is quite a bit more to purchasing a building than just writing a check and trusting the intentions of the seller. Competent real estate agents will protect buyers from whatever they can because not to do so will reflect badly on them. The last house I bought and sold -- here in Texas -- there was a required form that the seller had to fill out listing known defects so that the buyer could not come back on him if the defect were discovered after the sale. The realtor insisted that I review the items when I was buyer and encouraged me to list everything I knew about as seller.

As far as inspectors go, I've found that they vary all over the ballpark in their skill and commitment to their task. I fired one for being an idiot but had another one find 21 major defects in a brand new house (over $300k) built by a major, respected developer. He even found a swarm of bees in a part of the attic space that I missed -- IN JULY IN TEXAS!

I feel your pain, Gary. Having obtained a judgment, it seems that one wouldn't have to go to such extremes to have it satisfied. I'd really like to know if your state keeps records of property ownership from being publicly accessible. From the standpoint of personal privacy, I can understand not letting every Tom, Dick and Harry paw through the records; but when the state -- as do most -- sell lists of information (such as auto registrations and licensed drivers), I don't see how they can obstruct access to registration data when the enquirer has a judgment in hand and wants to place a lien.

Something here doesn't pass the sniff test.

BobH

Things don't work out the same way around here

Denis Ch�nard, Orl�ans, Ont.


>Blame part of this on buying frenzy (especially when the market is hot), but prospective buyers tend to "swallow" a bunch of crap from the real estate agent, because they don't know better, or finding out would be prohibitively expensive (in time and/or money).

Over here in Ontario, the RE agent has to "declare" by law whether he works for the seller or the buyer. What they end up doing is convincing prospective buyers to sign a "release" allowing them to do both (so in effect they could represent both the buyer and the seller of the same house), and that it is in the buyer's best interest; when you have a couple kids screaming around your "skepticism bank" gets depleted very quickly...

What the real estate agents end up doing is brokering the deal for the "market" price. They DON'T support either the buyer or the seller, they just want to get the transaction done as quickly as possible, which is where their interest lies...

There was a study done a few years ago, where the selling price and time on the market was compared between properties owned by RE agents vs. properties brokered for individual sellers. The result was that properties owned by RE agents stayed on average one more month on the market, and fetched $10K more than the same houses not owned by them...

All things considered, I think I trust lawyers more than RE agents...

DC

Re: why people pay for home inspections

Thom D


>I'm not taking sides but one can make a mistake in hiring the home inspector also. Like if he normaly works for agents with an interest in the sale in question, etc... When we bought our current house we paid 150 for the inspection and the guy pointed out all the problems with the house, that have been problems over the past 10 years: end of service-life furnace, sub-standard wiring, old roof. At the time I didn't know much about forced air furnaces, the rest of the stuff was obvious even to me. Still, at 150 it was worth it.

Possibly a state having a home inspector requirement doesn't do much for the quality of the people entering the trade or for keeping the prices low?

Just by the by, the small cottage across the road from me is very desireable, and has had buyers lined-up. A series of home inspectors have crashed deals finding rotted sills, blistered shingles that were brand new, etc...

I haven't done home inspection but I have done yacht surveys, and I know I have saved people money, but that's a different field in a lot of ways.

You are right

Denis Ch�nard, Orl�ans, Ont.


>RE agents usually have "suggested" inspectors (wonder if they pay a cut to the RE agent?), which save you the time to find one yourself. I went along with that, believing that I knew enough about houses to catch the inspector had he tried to pull a fast one on me... Fortunately the one I had was OK. But I wouldn't vouch for that "system" with "uneducated" buyers...

DC

Re: OT-rant - Sorry about the loss

Barryvabeach


>Gary, sorry about your situation. I have some familiarity with your situation and in my opinion you have two options. First, look up the local bar association in your area and ask for a referral for a collection attorney. Most do work on a contigency basis, but you are responsible for payment of costs like filing fees and service fees. It is not uncommon that they will take small claims like yours if they are what we refer to as high volume. Everytime they go to court they will have 100 or more cases in various stages. You won't get much personal attention to your claim, and things may move slowly, but it isn't economical to have an attorney go to court on just your case. The second option is to just let it go. While some people make mistakes and then try to do the right thing, there are a small group who think differently and they live their lives to avoid having to pay debts. I know a number of these people - their wife, or mother, or kid, owns the cars , the boats, the businesses and it is basically impossible to collect from them. You can spend a lot of time and emotional energy trying to get to them, but so long as they have enablers, they can hide their income and wealth from any collector. While it is very frustrating to run into someone like that, I hope that karma will catch up with them at some time or another and it is better for you to spend your energy in greener pastures. Sorry again about your home, hope everything is fixed up now. Barry

Re: OT-rant

Todd Hughes


>Just my feelings on this...

When ever I read a story like this I wonder if the seller said the furnace was bad and sold the house for $6000 cheaper and then the new buyer found out the "bad" furnace was really just a loose wire or somthing minor... now would the buyer call the seller up and say "hey stop by I have 6G for you" ?

...If you found out that the carved fireplace mantle you were replacing could be sold for $10,000 would the seller of the house be getting a big cut of it?....I know personaly I would answear No to both questions because I think it is up to the seller to know what it is that he is selling....Just like it is up to the buyer to depend on himself to know what he is buying.Is a very poor practice for either to depend on the other to look out for them.

OK befor you get the pitch forks and torches out let me tell you I went though the exact same thing! When I bought my house about 4 years ago I paid a home inspector to inspect it befor buying.Cost $250 if I remember right.His furnace test was basicaly to turn the furnace on and see if hot air came out of the ducts which it did. Buy the house and the first winter hired a furnace man to come out to clean the furnance etc. He comes out and in about 10 min. tells me I have a cracked heat exchanger and due to state law he has to disable the furnace for safty.Basicaly unhooks a wire and then showed me how to hook it back up after he leaves which I did.

...Now was I happy about this? Heck No ! but I never thought for a second to sue anybody. Should the seller , who lived 1,500 miles away, had told me? I'm not even sure they knew since the furnace still put out heat, I couldn't [and can't] tell it is broke but even if they knew can you really depend on the seller of somthing to tell you it's defects? Should the inspector have known? Maybe but he told me he was basicaly checking for construction problims and he did find a couple fairly minor problims which I used to get about $4,000 knocked off the price so he did pay for himself I feel. Looking back in hindsite I now wish I had hired a furnace guy to come out and check the furnace out.Would have cost me $50-$75 but hey who would have known, eh?

Even though I "had" to get a new furnace I haven't but just bought a carbon monoxide alarm, which has never gone off, knowing that somday I guess I will have to splurge and get a new furnace. Do I feel that the seller "screwed" me? not really, just like I hope the seller doesn't think I "screwed" him since I can sell the house now for 4 times what I paid for it just 4 years ago....Todd

Re: Things don't work out the same way around here

Thom D


>I take your point, for sure.

I remember that study at the time it came out. I thought it was not all that surprising. Think of this week's news about Warren Buffet giving his fortune to the Gates foundation, This is sold as partly the idea that if you have money to invest you would probably do better investing it with someone who has specific expertise, so you go with Buffet on portfolio and direct investments, and Gates on social investments/charitable disbursements, since he will be devoting the ballance of his life to that field.

I'm not surprised that RE agents sell for more than the average punter, just on the basis that they have probably a more rational, jaded approach to the subject than the average couple that is trying to arrange a sale after finding their dream home. Sure they have more leverage in the marketplace also, which I guess is the other reason we hire them. I don't trust them but I try to create the impression I do, so that they have one less risk factor to saw off against my quest for price. The bad thing about buying and selling houses is I don't get much practice, I'm still on house one.

Re: why people pay for home inspections

Vlad


>Gentlemen,

Yes, there are very poor home inspectors. Mine was awesome. If you need one in Southern Ontario Ping me. This guy found a gas leak in the furnace!. In front of the owner kept mentioning how the roof, furnace, AC, etc need to be replaced yesterday and not today. This guy saved me $5,000! There are good ones and there are bad ones. Mine was referred to me by my friend - he's also my mortgage broker. Ask the banker for a referral. Mine was well worth the $250 I paid.

I will never again buy a home without a home inspection.

Cheers

Vlad

PS. I too went to small claims court and it's a complete waste of time.

Re: OT-rant

woodburnbob


>...since I can sell the house now for 4 times what I paid for it just 4 years ago.

Just curious, Todd. What explains the dramatic change in market value?

Re: OT-rant

Todd Hughes


>I was very lucky in that I got a VERY good deal on my house mainly because the owner was an old guy that lived in Fla. and rented it and was tired of dealing with the tenents and just wanted to sell. I came along at the exactly right time , day after he put it on the market, and was able to pay mostly cash for it. Right after I got it the housing market exploded here and just went crazy with lots of rich folks from DC and Baltimore etc. moving in.

... I can walk to the Chesapeake Bay and the use of a comunity beach and boat ramp comes with my house and since water front here is mostly all snatched up makes a place like mine the second best thing.Also no more "New" houses can be built here in the community I live in because of sewage issues so now small houses [like mine] are being torn down and new houses being built. I have about an acre wooded lot which is bounded by wet lands so don't have to worry about anybody building up on me which I think really adds to the vaule. Few months ago a 1/3 of an acre lot [no house] on the road right down from me sold for 3 times what I paid for my place and I have no doubt I could get much more.

.... Kind of fun to think about I guess but I would never sell so thats about as far as it gets.Maybe luck had somthing to do with it but I really think my place was "sent" to me when I needed and asked for it ....Todd

It's all the landscaping

Bill Houghton, finally Spring!! in Sebastopol, CA


>like pruning the trees with a 12-ga.

Re: OT-rant

woodburnbob


>What a great story! Sounds like an ideal spot. With your skills, you'll be able to do anything you want with it for the rest of your life. Must make you very happy.

Re: OT-rant

Todd Hughes


>Thats kind of funny because I'm not the "home improvement' type of guy. Think about it but that is about as far as I get normaly.

...Just by chance today I am painting the front of my barn /shop only after being forced to by my Home Insurance people who I have been at odds with from day one. They are also forcing me to cut my grass [!] and clean up the stuff on my porch and in the yard.To say I am not happy with this would be putting it mildly. They have inspected me several times but never when I am home and I get these cryptic letters in the mail such as "shed door doesn't close properly" and insurance will be droped if I don't fix it.

I really think they are trying to get rid of insurance on propertys like mine which is close to the water and this is what they are trying to do. I have paid these guys $1,000s over the years and never put a single claim in....well back to painitng...Todd

Re: OT-rant

woodburnbob


>I sometimes imagine you to be a guy with a coal forge and anvil in the living room and a couple double burner gas forges in the bedroom for heat-treat. You sure the insurance Gestapo aren't more concerned about fire than water?

Get somebody to take a picture of you painting the barn. Get the porch, house, and yard in the picture. Put it on Ebay and I'll bid on it. Better yet, take a bunch of pictures, select 12, and put out a calendar: "Through the Seasons at the Hughes Estate". Might pay for your paint and insurance. Put me down for one of those too.

Re: OT-rant

William Duffield, on the Cohansey


>Of course, the issue is more probably liability. We wouldn't want one of Todd's slowhead neighbors stumbling upon any number of sharp and dangerous tools in the shop or on the porch, or over an anvil hidden by the high grass.

With all the recent rain and stifling humidity in this part of the world, it's been difficult to find the time and energy to get the grass mown, or the shop painted.

Homeowner's insurance

Bill Houghton, Sebastopol, CA


>When we bought our place, they insisted that we paint the tankhouse (aka watertower), and gave us one month to do it. We pointed out that, since we bought it in November, the beginning of the rainy season in California, that we could not do that, so they gave us a year. Good thing, since we discovered major areas of structural rot that led to a summer-long rebuilding project. We finished by the deadline (barely), sent off the photos (not mentioning all the structural work we'd done, just "here's the pretty painted building"), and they told us that we'd done such a good job that the place was now worth more, and upped our insurance premium!

Bill, no anvils in our yard - our younger son would claim them

Uh Oh, Todd's painting!

Todd O. Cronkhite Maine Native in FL. Exile :~(


>So, I'm feeling that what we have here is a classic case of "Be careful what you ask for", for whilst Todd is compling I HIGHLY suspect that he, ahhhhhhh,hmmmmmmmmm well, shall we say that painting the structure/s in "traditional" colors is not popping into my mind. ;~)

Todd, make sure to post pics of the finished job eh?

Todd O.