>I've been making my first attempts at dovetails, and had a tails or pins question (but not THAT tails or pins question *wink*).
I find that when I make my dovetails that they are on the tight side when I go to put them together, and that I need to pare the sides of the sockets to get them to fit nicely. Is it better to work on the tails or the pins for this purpose? And how do you go about fixing this problem?
And I realize the real answer is probably, "Learn how to saw, you lunkhead," but that will hopefully come about in time.
>I personally like altering the tails when needed as it is a straight, 90 degree to the face. Most often when something has gone wrong [marking, cutting or both], it isn't all of them. I use a file more often than not. I ground the teeth off the sides so it is a "safe edge" file that can ride on the bottom of the socket. I also take less away than I think I'll need to.
Do note that even changing one pin or tail can alter how they all fit.
>Most important thing is to do some careful investigation as to what is wrong. As already mentioned, even one being wrong will move all stalls over so identifying the problem is key.
Second, you can implement all the relief cuts that you may or may not normally wish to use, undercutting the ends, chamfers, concaving the pins so they end up looking straight. Don't overdo it, but the joint obviously didn't start out perfect so why not give yourself the maximum leeway.
In certain situations, like getting everything too fat, you may be able to plane the pin board a stroke or two, loosening everything up.
I use a litte keyhole saw as a ruler, I get in there particularly at the bottom of the kerf area and see if there are any fibers poking out if so they can be immediately removed or rasped, within reason, with the saw. I use one of those cheap keyhole saws LV sells.
One way of detecting erors is to hit everything with a square or angle. Even when I freehand, these simple tools will reveal flaws.
If I have to pare I pare, where the problem is. Normally one knows when a cut was wide or out of line, or too much was left behind. At all cost try to take away the wood you missed while sawing rather than just loosening everything up. If I do need to loosen, and can't plane the back of the pins, I pare the pins unless the grain is contrary.
You didn't say if these are half blind, or through. I'll assume 'through'. Also, are you going tails first or pins first?
This is actually a pretty good problem to have, because it seems pretty unlikely it is a marking issue.
Here are two or three things that might cause 'too tight'--two of them involve sawing, and one involves what is happening at the scribe line of the tails board.
On the sawing, it doesn't sound like there is a problem with the transfer marking. Rather, it could be that the transfer marks on the second board are OK, but the saw is too far into the waste. If this is so, then you can look closely at the second board, and see if there is waste still showing on the board adjacent to your marks. If so, that's the problem.
Oh, one other sawing possibility--did you saw parallel on the first board? If the first board is tails, look at the end grain cuts, and make sure that each pair of cuts are parallel to each other. If not, that could cause binding when you insert the pins board. Similarly, if the first board is pins, look to see whether the pins are parallel from the end grain to the scribe line, or whether they 'fatten up' near the scribe line--this could cause binding. Even if the pins board is the second board, if the pins get fatter toward their base, that would cause binding.
Finally, it could be the saw is not going all the way to the scribe line of the tails board, or that paring is not all the way to the scribe line. Either way, if you have a shallow tail socket, the pin will appear 'too fat'. This is easily checked by comparing the depth of the socket on the tails board with the height of the pin. In other words, are the pin backs (narrow end of pin) standing up above the tails board end grain when you put the boards together?
My dove tails are like yours, always needing a little help. I relize that I'll never be as proficient as Kingshott but I'm enjoying the journey. I learned a few things just reading the above messages.
Sounds like you are having fun. Keep practiing the sawing and layout.
>Wiley's right. You should only be paring pins or tail when you have one or two wrong. When all are tight, pare the baseline. You can even strike a new one if need be. Just be careful- a little change at the baseline really loosens up the joint.
But you're right that you must be able to choose whether you saw to the line, saw it out or split it. If you can't do that, you'll never be able to make good dt's quickly.
>Hey, thanks for all of the responses. After making a few more dovetails this weekend, it does look like my main problem is making my saw cut a bit too far into the waste side of my lines. I can pat myself on the back a little since it looks like my baselines are actually pretty good for a beginner. It was interesting to read the advice on how making adjustments to the scribe line will affect the fit of the joint, as that was something I was not aware of before.
I still need more practice, but it looks like I'm moving in the right direction. Thanks again!
>Here is a pic of a jig I developed a few years ago which
might assist you in paring and chopping to the baseline.
Either the tail or pin board can be aligned to the top cleat
and this cleat is used as a reference surface for a chopping
or paring operation.
The complete tail board is then advanced to the edge (as shown) to align with(in this case) a pin board. The tails are quickly and easily transferred to the tail board without alignment errors.
This jig can be quickly assembled with available hardware.
